Tuesday, January 28, 2014 ... Français/Deutsch/Español/Česky/Japanese/Related posts from blogosphere

Escape from camp 14

I am just reading (Wednesday: I have finished reading) Blaine Harden's book

Escape from Camp 14: One Man's Remarkable Odyssey from North Korea to Freedom in the West
and it is powerful stuff. It was published in 2012 by an American who shared the royalties with a guy named Sin who seems to be the world's only person who has ever escaped from the camps in North Korea (he was born in one such camp). We can learn quite something from him, at least if we believe that he is telling us the truth.

There are between 150,000-200,000 people "living" in these camps. The conditions are horrible. I don't want to tell you about the details. Hundreds of thousands of people have probably prematurely died or were killed in these camps that have existed for a longer time than Gulags and much longer than the Nazi concentration camps.

The West seems largely uninterested in these events, in this inhuman treatment of those people. It's largely because there is no Hollywood puppet who would become a spokesperson defending the rights of these people.

The book uncovers something from the glorious life of the ruling family, the world's most strict system of castes, the not-so-stellar life of the elite in Pyongyang, and the terrible life of the castes that are not elite, especially people of all ages who live in the camp.

We also learn about the permanent scars that this man, Sin, will carry forever. Recommended.

Lindzen and U.K. deputies

I am just watching the testimony of Richard Lindzen, Donna Laframboise, and Nicholas Lewis in front of some U.K. lawmakers. They're making great points (Richard even had the chance to finally say Sure, the atmospheric sciences are surely not the fields picked by most of the brightest students; yes, the field is kind of inferior – he also added that the times are changing and the best ones might be preferring business, not physics, these days) but it's depressing to see how dense the politicians are.

They're overwhelmingly unable to understand that the IPCC members also have interests; they can't even understand that the Greenpeace and WWF activists are incompatible with the impartiality demanded by proper science; they don't understand that the sensitivity's being nonzero isn't the same thing as the claim that there is a problem with the climate; they don't understand that a high enough sensitivity is needed for the climate change to be a problem; a particularly aggressive lawmaker doesn't even understand that a 15-year hiatus (or a global warming stopped in 1998, to put it in slightly inequivalent but similar terms) is completely compatible with the last decade's being the hottest one on record (first-grader's maths is too hard for him); they can't understand that the "consensus" isn't a good way to evaluate the scientific evidence; they don't understand anything.

It boils down to some aspect of the scientific illiteracy but I can't understand what it is that makes people unable to understand such simple points.

Off-topic, Czech politics: America has thought it was a big deal to elect a half-black president. But in Czechia, it's completely normal – it's business-as-usual – for this Smurf hybridized with Avatar and a Totem Pole to become the minister of... culture. At least, this former presidential candidate is the leading contender to become the minister who was proposed by the agricultural mogul and former communist snitch (agent Bureš 007) Mr Babiš. Great, we will be more cultural and prove that this is a blue, not green planet.

Correction: OK, he should be just the first deputy minister, but we're still the coolest ones! ;-)

A bit obscene song: Just to make some Americans understand that some Russians may be offended by Pussy Riot in the church. The truth is that I consider this song by Mr Xindl X to be very good! It starts with the girl praying "Dear Baby Jesus [who delivers gifts here], sorry that I wrote to Santa. But he is evil. You have to punish him. Thank you." Then it continues with Xindl X's obscenities – he, dressed both as Jesus and Santa, is praising his sexual organs. When she will get familiar with it, she will s*it into her pants, and she will think that he is a Beethoven when he plays the children's song "Puppy was jumping". And so on, four minutes. He has trot like Mr Rhythm and rhythm like Mr Trot (Trot, Klus, is a Czech songmaker while Rhythm is a Slovak-half-Gypsy rapper). So should I start my Casio? Probably yes [asio]! So what? So what? Before Santa is finally crucified at the end, Xindl says "so finally understand it, it's the end" which is copied (including the accent) from a song by the rapper Rhythm (a duet with Tina, SK, 1:23).

The latest song by Xindl X is his Czech edition of Aqua's Barbie Girl, with a totally different melody but some overlapping (but more sophisticated and more obscene) lyrics.

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reader Isla Edouard said...

The Western seems mostly fed up in these activities, in this inhuman therapy of those individuals. It's mostly because there is no The show biz industry puppet who would become a representative protecting the privileges of these individuals.


reader Kimmo Rouvari said...

Heh, it's the dominating paradigm which makes those boneheads function as sheeps. Quite frustrating, isn't it? :-) Now you know how I feel with contemporary theoretical physics ;-)

reader AJ said...

Frontline had a pretty good show on NK recently:


reader Luboš Motl said...

Too bad, not available in Czechia due to copyright restrictions.

reader Uncle Al said...

North Korea does not horrify Obamunism, it inspires! What could be better than every person being perfect in every way, their only allegiance being to the government that cherishes them moment to moment. I want to be in charge of a sector. I'll make it shine!

You can't make an omelette without killing roosters.

reader djaymick said...

Al Gore is the 21st century Margaret Sanger. She demanded abortion be legal to control the black population. Al gore is doing the same thing, only in Africa. Can you imagine the hysterics if Dick Chaney or Dan Quayle said the same thing? It's because he's a Democrat that he can get away with it.

reader Eugene S said...

Thanks. Frankfurt, and stuck here for the moment.

Interesting reading. It won't change my basic disposition towards Turks, but I am reminded of this article by Francesco Gil-White.

Palestine is our land
and the Jews our dogs

Even if you take the land out of the equation, there is still that "phantom pain", as of an amputated limb, that comes from no longer having a despised ethnic and religious minority to kick around so that even the poorest members of the mainstream society will always have someone to look down on.

Who knows, that phantom pain may last longer than the issue over land.

reader Luboš Motl said...

Thanks, Gene, interesting.

I've interacted with lots of Germans and Americans and I feel that the feeling of guilt among the Americans is much stronger than among the Germans.

reader Werdna said...

Watching those British Parliament hearings was kind of painful because the politicians are sooooooo stupid.

reader Luboš Motl said...

Exactly. I believe that some people in the alarmist climate science community must actually feel the same disgust as the two of us. I mean people like Gavin Schmidt, or someone with at least some scientific training. They surely find this kind of stupidity convenient but in reality, they must feel the same pain as we do.

reader John Archer said...

I don't know why you got marked down for that one. Some people don't do irony?

Anyway, for balance I've given you a Brownie point. No charge.

reader lukelea said...

I listened to Gore giving a political speech to a small Democratic crowd in Chattanooga some 35 years ago in the course of which he casually let it drop that of course the earth was created 6000 years ago! I kid you not. That's when I started losing respect for the guy.

reader John Archer said...

To keep my household insurance costs down I have to get the leather restraining straps out before I watch anything to do with our traitorous alien scumbag governments.

I'll watch it later. Meanwhile, please tell me Lindzen, overcome with grief at their plight and in the true spirit of philanthropy, jumped up halfway through his giving his testimony, whipped out a flame-thrower from under his coat and gave them all the Ripley treatment.


Tell me, even if it isn't true. Tell me.

reader Gene Day said...

I wasn’t even thinking about guilt, Lubos. Feelings of guilt are misplaced if they concern the actions of anyone else, even one’s own parents and siblings.
As a nation, however, we have to accept the reality of our history including the injustices of the past. As long as our schools teach the truth we will be OK in the long run and I think they now do teach the truth.
I share your feelings about Austrians and I think that our Japanese friends also fail to accept the facts regarding the horrors committed by their country.

reader John Archer said...

"I certainly do hate people...."

Let me stop you there — now you're talking!

"...and many also are ignorant due to no fault of their own so it is hard to blame them personally."

Still, you'd spay the lot, eh? Because you care so much. Right?

Well, fuck you and people like you, with all your morals and morality.

That reminds me. Samuel Johnson claimed that patriotism was the last refuge of the scoundrel. Maybe so in some cases but from what I see the first refuge is his goddamned piss-arse fucking morality.

Your type needs to get off other people's backs.

reader CIPig said...

I don't support forcing other countries to control fertility, but I do support encouraging them to do so.

reader Smoking Frog said...

It boils down to some aspect of the scientific illiteracy but I can't
understand what it is that makes people unable to understand such simple

When I was young, I thought most people knew more than I did - about all sorts of things. When I was about 35, I guess, I began to think that people are stupider and more ignorant than we (all of us) suppose, even people who are well above average IQ, and even some very high IQ people. (The "we" is all of us.) During the 35 years since, I've only become more convinced, and I've found that the problem is worse than I thought.

My theory is that there's a sort of mutual admiration which is necessary for relationships and society to work, and it also makes each person think others are smarter than they are. He believes his own bullshit, so to speak.

reader Mark Taylor said...

Your grandfather remembered the events of the early 1860's? Voting rights were in the 1870's. Most Americans are too young to remember the civil rights movement of the 1960's. To be old enough to recall those events you would need to be probably 60 or older. I think most people, and their parents, and many of their grandparents are so far removed from that time that it doesn't mean much to them to have a black or half black president other than a chance to feel like they fought the segregation monster that they never actually experienced.

reader Luboš Motl said...

What does such encouragement look like? Paying them $1,000 every time they decrease their population by 1 person?

Or telling them you will allow them to trade a commodity if they decrease the population?

Or just telling them that they are good puppies whenever they don't have children so that they may feel happy that their superior or owner has praised them?

reader Gregg Grundon said...

Thank you Dr. Motl, I'm afraid with people like Mr. Gore, sterilization should have started with his father.

reader Kimmo Rouvari said...

You better sit down at the moment when the paradigm changes :-) http://www.toebi.com/blog/rant/emperors-new-clothes/

It might sting a bit ;-)

reader Gordon said...

Hmm, I could have written this, except for the first sentence of paragraph 2 :)

Basically, it boils down to this---


reader Eugene S said...

Oh, just one more thing, Lucky. Remember what you said a few weeks back about Jews' higher IQ? I am agnostic about that, but today Henryk M. Broder strongly disagrees. I don't have time to translate his article, you can Google Translate it: http://www.achgut.com/dadgdx/index.php/dadgd/article/gib_das_schoene_haendchen_didi

I've checked GT's work and it contains many mistakes but does allow to get the gist of the piece. (Thankfully, a bit of Yiddish at the end is left untouched.)

reader Gene Day said...

I will be 78 this year and my grandfather, William Calvin Baker, was born in February, 1860, in Moore County, North Carolina. He died in 1944 but not before I came to know him. You would do well to think about those Americans who

reader Luboš Motl said...

Hi Anna, btw I liked numerous recent answers or small comments of yours at Physics Stack Exchange.

reader Luboš Motl said...

Right. People are probably admiring each other for being really stupid, for saying and doing really stupid things, and this makes them even more stubbornly stupid.

Sometimes people also admire each other for admirable things but most of this effect is canceled against the opposite effect from the previous paragraph. ;-/

reader anna v said...

Thanks Lubos, I try answer low to medium level legitimate questions . My mathematical abilities are rusty and I hesitate to wade into differential equations etc :).

BTW have you noticed that a number of the naive questioners are young boys from India? one of them 13 ! years old? There must be something in the educational system in India that presents them with particle physics.

The 13 year old reminded me of my grandson ( who is also 13 at the french schools) . He has as eager questions for botany and paleo science which probably is what they are getting as science in his year there.

reader lucretius said...

I have read very similar things before, maybe even written by Henryk Boroder. Of course here is quite right and, as such things are, both funny and bitterly sad, but he makes a basic mistake (excusable in a piece of satire).

There is no doubt about the “higher IQ” because IQ is what is measured by IQ tests and they are unequivocal. There is also no doubt about the relation between IQ and academic abilities (and Nobel prizes) or professional success. It is silly and meaningless to say “that is a matter of training”, and as someone who has spent many years seeing pitifully effects of trying to “train” people with insufficient abilities to do mathematics I would say, I know a lot more about this than Henryk does.

What Henryk is really talking about is the phenomenon of the existence of a very large number of what Ronald Reagan once called “high IQ dummies” or HIQDs (I am not sure if Reagan used the word “dummies” or some other synonym like “blockheads” etc, I can’t find the exact quote but I remember it). HIQDs are very common, for example, CIPig who visits this blog from time to time, obviously has a higher than average IQ, but judging by his blog and his comments here, he is a HIQD of a very common kind. The HIQD phenomenon is not an easy one to explain, but it is surely related to society: e.g HIQDs are very common among American Jews (perhaps the majority) but very rare among Jews from the former Soviet Union. Obviously for certain cultural reasons it is an advantage to be an HIQD in the US but in the Soviet Union it was very hard for anyone like that to survive.

reader Luboš Motl said...

Right, it's sort of amazing - I have some hundreds of young physics-interested Indian "friends" at Facebook.

reader Shannon said...

Uncle Al, FYI you don't need a rooster for hens to lay eggs.

reader Eclectikus said...

Slightly off-topic (or transversal at least): do not miss the nth ridiculous of the liberal media by overreacting to the satires of "The People's Cube" (a site created by an Ukrainian, and former Soviet propagandist, resident in USA, ) and trying to link them to the evil Koch Brothers. Hilarious:


And is that liberals enjoy very little with satires (unless they are done by themselves, of course). :D

reader Shannon said...

Dream Chaser, helping the poor in Africa with their agriculture etc so they can feed their families is a more positive way to let them choose their future. When they have enough food they will naturally make less babies.

reader Dilaton said...

Thanks Anna :-)

I have given you the link to a particular question that has 4 reopen votes below Mitchell Porter s recent nice question.

But you have to be fast, as Chris White has kicked it out of the reopen queue and the reopen votes will otherwise start to decay.

It would be very helpful if you, Mitchell, Trimok, and of course Lumo ;-), etc could some kind of regularely visit the review queues to counteract and limit the damage done by the politically hyper active aggressive dilettantes who presently dominate the review queues.

However, as you can see from my recently updated profile on physics SE, I am rather giving up on the site now, though. Asking questions there is for me no longer feasable as the arrogant pompous dimwits and know-nothings capriciously are capable of closing good to excellent questions too, for se political reasons, because they dont understand them, or whatever :-(

reader Dilaton said...

Ha ha Lumo,

seems you are a rock star ;-D

I think these very young junior physicists are some kind of cool fun ;-)

Maybe the different culture in India and Europe+US makes the difference:

As I have noted, in India people including popular media were enthusiastically happy about Ashoke Sen catching the FFP, whereas in the US and Europe ... you know ... :-(

So it might well be that in India fundamental physics is generally represented in a more positive scientifically acurate way to the general public than in the US and Europe, such that young talented kids learn to love and appreciate it early ... :-)

reader Eugene S said...

The bigger question is, where are the Chinese? physics.SE and Quora are practically Indian dominions ;)

People with Indian-sounding names outnumber people with Chinese-sounding names by 4 to 1 there, how come the Chinese are so few? Kept out by the Great Firewall? Content to stay among their own kind on Baidu?

reader Dilaton said...

Hm, I somehow suspect they are kept behind the Iron Curtain, they do not have access to the whole of the Internet...

reader Cesar Laia said...

LOL? http://www.tweaktown.com/news/35032/north-korea-confirms-it-has-landed-a-man-on-the-sun/index.html

reader Luboš Motl said...

Dear Eugene, it boils down to the definitions of the nations.

The Indians are meditating with Dalai Lama, refusing to drink water with Gandhi, computing physics with Minwalla, operating call centers of U.S. companies, and playing movies in Hollywood.

Chinese are imposing discipline for Mao, counterfeit iPhones, and bike under heavily emitting chimneys.

The definitions above are approximate. They're the differences! ;-)

reader Dilaton said...

Bazinga !

Your ping worked and the Parity Operator question is open :-P ... for now...

To control and limit the damage done by unilateral unjustified mod hammers + aggressive dilletantes, we would have to make use of this means of pinging reasonable people who have shown interest in reviewing, on a more regular basis. I have seen so many wrongly closed questions attracting 3 or even 4 reopen votes that successively decayed useless ... :-/

However, explicitely pinging nice people has to be done wisely and cautiosly, as mods and aggressive know-knothings might not appreciate it of course, even though it is nothing illegal ...

reader John McVirgo said...

I noticed you suddenly went on an answering spree on 24th Jan, answering 14 questions in one day. I thought:

1. You got lucky with a bunch of questions asked more at your level for a change

2. Became impatient at reaching 100K

3. Just a gentle reminder as to who's top dog there.

reader Luboš Motl said...

LOL, sprees are the way how I often operate but I don't have any explanation why exactly January 24th.

1. There was no luck. Modestly speaking, I can answer pretty much every question that is asked there. Some of them are really stupid, however, and it does slightly depend on the mood how I react to them - passivity and disinterest, strong irritation, or attempted constructive answers.

2. I have no plans of looking at 100K but I *am* looking for my third "tag badge" for 1,000 points for a tag. After quantum mechanics and quantum field theory, it would be string theory, currently at 978, but no one seems to ask stringy questions! ;-)

3. LOL, not the primary goal of any activity here but I can't prove this assertion.

reader lucretius said...

You are completely right about Pushkin’s “romanticism” and essentially the same is true about Mickiewicz. They both considered “romantic poets” first of all because that is how they themselves thought of themselves, they identified themselves with “romanticism” and contrasted it with the then dominant “classicism”. It was a typical case of a “rebellion of youth”. They both also wrote some typically “romantic poetry”, which was in both cases imitation of Lord Byron’s - who, as poet, was far more famous and influential abroad than he ever was in his own country.

But in their greatest epic poetic works, Mickiewicz’s “Pan Tadeusz” and Pushkin’s “Evgeniy Onegin”, there is rather little romanticism. In fact, in form the poems are firmly “classical” in form and essentially realist in content. The one clearly romantic quality in in both poem is the use of a kind of “detached irony” (which is also the main quality of Byron’s greatest poem “Don Juan”).

I think Lermontov was a more typical Romantic poet in Russia, and Słowacki in Poland.

I agree that both Onegin and Pan Tadeusz are completely untranslatable.

The greatness and the untranslability of “Pan Tadeusz” derives, in my opinon, from two aspects. One is that in the poem Mickiewicz “paints” in an extremely vivid and realistic way a society and a culture that once existed but has completely disappeared and was really unlike any other in the world. (I mean, of course, the culture of the Polish “szlachta” (nobility) of the Eastern lands of the old Rzeczpospolita, today Belarus and Lithuania).

The second reason is the language: which has both rhyme and meter and yet is unbelievably “natural”. A Pole reading it is amazed by this “naturality”. Of course, this quality disappears even in the best translation.

As for influence: I think there is no doubt that Pushkin was the most influential writer in the history of Russian literature. I don’ think others actually imitated his style, but he was Russia’s first great writer and everyone after him was conscious of him. Russian literature after Pushkin is full of references and allusions to his works and I think it is difficult to understand it fully without reading Pushkin. The only thing I can compare to Pushkin’s status in Russian literature is that of Lady Murasaki and her “Tale of Genji” in Japanese literature. It is the point of reference for everything that follows it.

This is certainly not true about Mickiewicz. Polish literature is older than Russian literature and Mickiewicz was never seen as a “founder figure”. His style was impossible to imitate and there is no work in Polish literature that can be said to be visibly influenced by “Pan Tadeusz”. I literary terms, I think, Mickiewicz stands in Polish literature alone, rather like Mozart in music: greatly admired and loved but not "influential" in the sense of inspiring imitators. But Mickiewicz had an enormous impact on the Polish national consciousness and patriotism, which is, however, a somewhat different matter.

reader Dilaton said...

Now Polarkernal has reserved the domain name on the host


for us :-))) ...!

Here you can look at the future home of PhysicsOverflow and read a short announcement.


The text should slightly be improved to mention that conversely as on Physics SE, for physicists relevant mathematical questions will be allowed too. We already talke about this on the blog.


reader Shannon said...

Regarding North Korea, Kim Jong Un reminds me of Francois Hollande: he gets rid of his mistress brutally, he is fat, he is stupid, he is immature, he's always been a spoiled prat, power is going to his head, he copies his predecessor. During all this time the people is craving for a change.

reader John McVirgo said...

India is a very free society compared to many countries in the Middle-East and especially China in East Asia, having also (forcibly)embraced the English language from British colonialism.
Over the coming decades, things will change when China will eventually shake off communism, the Middle-East will become more secular.

reader Dilaton said...

Oh yes Lumo,

the third gold badge for you and string theory would be cool fun, I would like this so much that I forgot for about 5s that I have sworn to no longer put up any questions there ... ;-)

However, I will systematically and carefully check if I have really already seen and properly appreciated all answers you have written in that tag so far, maybe there are interesting things to learn I have missed ... :-)


reader Pavel Krapivsky said...

Great news! Back in Soviet times we had a popular joke. During the Politburo Meeting, Comrade Brezhnev asks why, after all the successful landings on the Moon and Mars, we are not going to the Sun. Comrade Kosygin, a prime minister and a kind of IT guy in the Politburo, raises the concern about landing on the hot Sun. Comrade Brezhnev thinks for a bit and then proposes to flight at night. Fortunately, North Korean Comrades finally reached the Sun. (They do not report did they fly on day or night, though.)

reader John Archer said...

Tim Yeo, the troughing sleazebag chairman of that shithouse Energy and Climate Change Select Committee, has 'outside interests'. Wanna guess what they might be? See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2546060/New-blow-Tory-MP-Tim-Yeo-hopes-avoiding-sack-suffer-set-snubbed-Conservatives.html

I noticed his attitude toward Professor Lindzen was rather aggressive. No surprises there. Nice to see Lindzen slap him back down though. Shame he didn't shoot him.

You have to ask yourself how the hell Yeo ended up being appointed as Chairman, or even in anyway connected with this 'disinterested' committee.

Meanwhile bullingdon buffoon, Cast-Iron-Dave, the PR spiv (with a 'first' in PPE Studies) currently running Britain, has a father-in-law who's raking in a few hundred thousand a year from the greentard wind-turbine subsidies paid for by the likes of 95 year-old war widow, Ada Scuggins, who is worried about whether she will die from hypothermia this winter in her lonely hovel because of the resulting increase in energy prices.

These, of course, are all very moral men.

Incidentally, Peter Lilley, the fellow on the far right of the panel has some physics background and is not entirely convinced about CAGW. :) http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100213192/lilley-sticks-it-to-trougher-yeo/

I see the bastards running al beeb (iPlayer) gave full coverage to the testimony of the tri-cunt panel of warmistas (~95mins) but only ~20 mins to Professor Lindzen & co whose testimony was cut short but could, apparently, be watched live (only) on some other channel. Too bad if you missed it though, as I did, because it doesn't appear to have been recorded.

By the way, that prancing smugoid, Myles Allen, is another one full of himself. Eminently punchable. And I see Waylon Smithers has been reincarnated as Peter Snot.

reader Gene Day said...

No, Skarina, we are not capable of destroying the planet and certainly not the solar system.

reader lucretius said...

On the subject of Soviet jokes: I guess everybody known the joke about Brezhnev, his car collection and his mother. This was Ronald Reagan's favourite Brezhnev joke. As Richard Pipes recalls, when Hemut Schmidt, the German chancellor, came to the US to urge Reagan to restart the policy of "Détente", after an hour of being hectored by Schmidt, Reagan responded by telling him this joke. (It was Reagan's way of telling Schmidt he was wasting his time).

Well, here is Brezhnev himself telling the same Soviet joke (from a Russian TV movie):


reader Dilaton said...

Dear Lumo,

what do you think about this ... ;-)?


BTW here are all of the unanswered string theory questions, have fun ... ;-P


Cheers ;-)

reader Bruce Bodner said...

I am glad Gore is taking his brand of hypocrisy on steroids out internationally. For example he has a giant house which uses about 10 times as much electricity as the average house. He flies all around using carbon that way. He is big into some green products that he has invested in and wants the govt to give subsidies and you to buy, or be forced to buy. He is an insufferable fraud.

reader Dilaton said...

Now Qmechanic has reopend the Contracting Indices question and accepted my corresponding flag, which is nice of him and quite unexpected :-)

But of course I am still determined to shift my love and attention exclusively to Physics Overflow in the course of time. In particular after Polarkernel s new announcement in the blog about going online ... ;-)

Cheers !

reader John Archer said...

Yes, I strongly agree. In some countries I can imagine that apartheid may well be the only sensible approach. Moreover, how others handle things in their own country is entirely up to them — I don't see that it's anyone else's business. It's surely none of mine. And I certainly wouldn't condemn them for it. Far from it.

As for my own country, Britain, the greatest problem we have had thrust on us is massive unwanted post-WWII immigration, millions of hideous brown-faced turd-world out-and-out aliens in particular. Then dumped on top of that—again without our consent—is a huge influx of unwanted continentals.

Legal or illegal? Any of it, it doesn't matter — the distinction has been rendered meaningless. It has been rendered meaningless because none of the relevant 'laws' by which this was accomplished has any democratic legitimacy. It is all wholly ILLEGITIMATE. We've been subjected to it very much against our will by an out-of-control political claque (who also need to be dealt with — very severely).

Apartheid is no solution for Britain though. I don't want to share my country with 'the other', nor in any way give them living space here. They shouldn't be here, and wouldn't be if we had had any say in it. They need to go. Repatriation is the only solution. Forced if necessary.

I hope other European countries follow suit. But that's their affair.

reader Dilaton said...

Of course it would be most effective to call for participiants in the technical private beta on Physics SE (for example in Meta and Chat too).

However, when asking a corresponding Meta question, similar to the one I have don on Quora:


I would bet that the mods would delete it soon ... :-/.

However, a corresponding comment in chat linking to Polarkernel's recent blog post might work.

The same goes for MathOverflow, as PhysicsOverflow will more be welcoming to mathy questions than Physics SE ...

reader CentralCharge15 said...

I think it is worth trying to get people to join PO, by posting on meta.

Many more people visit meta than chat. I will post the question today. There is a chance that it could be used as an excuse to ban me again, though there really is no point, except ceasing my activity in the review queues. Who cares, though.

reader Dilaton said...

Thanks Dimension10, posting it on meta is indeed a risk ...

Or maybe it could alternatively be posted as anwer the community promotion ads thread. But then I think the final Physics Overflow would better be suited be adverized there than the technical private beta...

The meta question will probably get closed as soon as the mods see it. But this would do no harm, as we are not up to answers but to people who like to take part in the technical private beta.

If you write such a question, I will save it to my offline test site as soon as I can ...

Your work in the review queues is valuable to at least trying to protect good questions a bit against the attacks of the rascals ... until we can invite the nice knowledgeable and seriously interested in advanced physics folks to Physics Overflow...

reader Dilaton said...

Ok, seems we need to be a bit careful on Physics SE (even though Manishearth once said that we are allowed PhysicsOverflow in chat as soon as it is running): The EnergyNumbers Troll, the rascal CrazyBuddy and an unknown SE kibitzer called Kalina are trying to annoy us (did you post a chat comment they deleted...?)


It makes Physics SE looking not good that astrophysics students are allowed to openly attacke established theoretical physicists, such as Urs Schreiber, by calling them crackpots and their work nonsense, whereas people posting an inocuous link looking for help in setting up an internet site in chat, are heavily threathened ... You should also read the comments above.

The nonsense the non physicists and kibitzers occupying chat are talking about 24h/day is much worse than announcing the beta of PhysicsOverflow.

I now think it is too dangerous to announce it in Chat or Meta ...

reader CentralCharge15 said...

I had written the following in chat:

[Physics Overflow](http://physicsoverflow.org) is going to go online for a private beta phase soon. For more, see [Quora](http://www.quora.com/Who-is-interested-in-joining-the-technical-private-beta-of-Physics-Overflow).

And it was deleted by "Stack Exchange". Probably too many spam flags, or a moderator using the SE account (they can, ManishEarth did that once to scare a few users : ) ... ) .

On meta I wrote,

Physics Overflow is going to go online soon, and it will be finally having it's private beta phase!

You can read more at Schrodinger's Cat Strikes Back!: Going Online : ) . I will quote the text that Dilatonhas posted on Quora:

I linked to thinkgs like "Physics Overflow", "Schrodinger's Cat Strikes Back!: Going Online : )", "Dilaton", and "Quora", and then quoted the text you had posted on Quora. It got a score of -6, and was then deleted by Tim Post after 2 hours.

reader Dilaton said...

These are really harmless comments linling to non insulting information.

The score is just a sigh that meta is dominated by SE politicians and kikitzers and non physicists.

Just recently, somebody commented in meta that he would be happy if there were a physicsoverflow, and it got upvoted...;-)

reader CentralCharge15 said...

Hm, could you link to the comment, I ' d like to see it.

reader Dilaton said...

Here it is:


And my comment above got upvoted too ;-)

I still dont get why there is such a stong destructive overreaction to your comments that simply announce the private beta of PhysicsOverflow. And SE people who have never shown the stlightest interest in (theoretical) physics feel entitled to express their opinion and cite comments out of context that have nothing to do with the private beta.

It looks as if those people want to, after closing the Theoretical Physics SE site, even deny theoretical physicists to gather elsewhere in the internet to discuss and help each other studying physics together. I have no idea why they hate theoretical physics / physicists so much that they begrudge them even the right to exist someplace in the internet (?). Claiming that we hate all contributors to Physics SE, even though we just disagree with policies and not knowledgeable enough people having and applying too much power, is very dishonest and a gross amazing lie.

There still are some very good, nice, and knowledgeable people on Physics SE. And exactly this is what makes me sometimes very sad that I can no longer ask questions there (and write answers to help others and recapitulate what I think I have understood) and discuss cool physics with them ...

However, clarifying this in chat would be pointless. Generally, I should better avoid commenting in that chat room alltogether as it always quickly gets too time consuming, emotionally straining, etc ... This is not good for my health, which will never again be what it was before my recently being hospitalized...

It seems some of the recently in chat active people are reading this TRF thread too anyway ... ;-)

reader CentralCharge15 said...

Oh, that one. One of the upvoters is me, though,

reader Dilaton said...

I suspect for me it will get better as soon as PhysicsOverflow is up and running... In the meantime, a sucking internet connection already does part of the job ;-)

BTW have you seen this? It seems Physics SE is not the only site with a particular problem:


The response the OP gets from the people who should take hime serious and have a look at the issue, makes on think that it is some kind of "state by design" of the SE network or philosophy.

reader Dilaton said...

Wow, seems some miracles can happen from time to time:


If only things would always work as reasonable as in this case there ... !

reader Dilaton said...


Have you seen this and the following comments?


The appropriate words to describe such an unbelievable behavior and biased abuse of moderation power do not yet exist, just feel like exploding ... :-/.

3k users do legitimately not always have to agree with the mods or Chris White ... !

reader CentralCharge15 said...

Yes, I saw it. The community has decided to leave it open like a dozen times already, yet, David Zaslavaska decides to go ahead and close it.

reader Dilaton said...

Kyle Kanos should immediately be banned from reviewing questions:


Together with Chris White and probably others of the >3000 k users who have no technical knowledge about theoretical physics themself but are politically hyperactive in the review queue, such a gang of anti theoretical physics zealots can do a lot of damage to the site if they decide to systematically start persecuting string theory questions ... And if they do I am not sure if anything can be done about it, I just remember the futile attempt of looking for help on MSO as your string theory questions were under attack ... :-(. So maybe it is not such a bad idea to think about importing all questions with the string-theory tag and sort out the crap manually, after all ...

reader Dilaton said...

Now Manishearh has deleted the whole off topic comment thread started by Kyle Kanos claiming that string theory is not physics (Jinawee did an astonishingly good stand for the good), which is rather positive.

However I will never forget what Kyle Kanos said and its bad implications for the possibility to discuss and ask about certain theoretical physics topics. The moderators can not be counted on to defend such questions, if the rascals with too much (moderation) power decide to seriously attack these topics on the site ... :-/

reader A said...

Have you guys seen this? http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/96685/given-that-string-theory-has-so-many-problems-and-is-almost-certainly-false-why - I would be interested in your points of view about this question.

reader Luboš Motl said...

I found it encouraging that the non-question earned minus 10 score (14 of 18 votes were negative). Note that it not only parrots all the cranks' delusions about string theory and SUSY etc.; it also calls for a "scientific consensus" imposing such delusions for everyone. Although I know that the rule isn't perfect, I do think that the anti-string folks are "largely" the same people as the totalitarian individuals who love to control other people and impose speech codes so that proper research and search for the truth becomes impossible, and I feel vindicated by this particular asshole's combination of the two intellectual and moral defects.

reader Dilaton said...

Yep, and I think Dmckee's personal anti string theory (theorists) attitude,
expressed in the comments below this agressive spam, is not much less worrisome.
It is certainly not the right attitude for a moderator of a physics site
that claims to uphold at least some minimal scientific standards ...

Fortunately it did not (yet) bias his moderator decisions ... so far, but who knows ...

The anti theoretical physics zealot Kyle Kanos however seems to have started his attack on string theory questions, for example by voting to close on this:


reader woodnfish said...

Leftists have no morals, Lubos. It is one of the reasons they are incapable of realizing how misanthropic and evil their ideas are, and why they continue to cling to communism and other failed ideas. It is also why they are so dangerous.

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