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CSTO ready to take over Ukraine

I've spent lots of hours by following the events in Ukraine and worrying about them, too. The Western propagandist outlets have informed their undemanding audiences that Russia has finally invaded Ukraine. Well, it wasn't the first time when we heard such a thing. What strategy did Russia choose to invade Ukraine yesterday?



It has sent about 10 soldiers above. They must have supernatural powers if they're supposed to conquer a country with 40+ million people. Perhaps, it wasn't just the ten folks. There may be a thousand of Russian citizens fighting over there. Soldiers on vacations, retired soldiers, and perhaps other volunteers. What a shock. Do you really expect the Kremlin to exterminate people in their military for these hobbies? The Kremlin understands the emotions behind these hobbies. There is a comparable number of Americans (or at least one hundred) on the other side – who have really no business to be there at all – too.




Some Canadian NATO apparatchiks tried to be both funny and cheeky so they have drawn a map for the captured Russian soldiers (and their colleagues) to find their way.




On their mission's Twitter account, they would show this map:



Geography can be tough, indeed. One may immediately see three problems with the map.

  1. Crimea has been a part of Russia from the overwhelming result of their referendum, so it should be drawn in red. If the "blue Crimea" mistake was deliberate, it is very childish.
  2. Even more unequivocally, the Kaliningrad region between Poland and the Baltic States is a part of Russia and should be red, too. It's been a part of Russia since the 1945 Potsdam Treaty.
  3. The blue country is not called "Not Russia".
Concerning the third point, the name "Ukraine" has been used for that territory for quite some time. But if the Canadian would-be comedians insist on using an alternative name that has "Russia" in it, the right name is not "Not Russia" just like this guy's name isn't Mr Not Sure. At least since the 1335 Byzantine documents at least through the 1980s, the alternative name of the territory was "Little Russia". Tchaikovsky wrote a famous Little Russian Symphony, inspired by the folk songs from that region – "Ukrainian folk songs", some people would call them today.

In earlier times, the "Kievan Rus'" was covering pretty much the same territory. But if you realistically incorporated Crimea, fixed the Kaliningrad blunder, and used a name for Ukraine that would reveal that it is a part of the Russian civilizational space, it would no longer be "funny", would it? Here, the word "funny" in quotation marks means "to be capable of flattering the cheap Russophobia of the lowest, brainwashed layers of the Western society". If something is full of xenophobia directed in the "right", politically correct direction, it must be "funny" as well, right? I don't find the map funny without quotation marks, especially if I compare it e.g. with this map of the world according to the Americans:



Incidentally, the Canadian chaps may want to look at this map, too, in order to calibrate their idea about their own relevance in the world.

At any rate, it is flabbergasting how much nonsense, fabrications, conspiracy theories, and downright lies are being shown in the Western "mainstream" media these days. A week ago or so, I don't remember exactly, we would be told about an invasion by Russian tanks. Within a day, it would be shown that the tanks have been Ukrainian for years. No corrections would ever be published in the "mainstream" media.

When MH17 was shot down, we would be made sure that Russia or at least the Russian speakers were behind it. However, this topic suddenly evaporated – probably because the investigation hasn't led to the "desired" results, has it?

Also, we are constantly fed the preposterous propaganda that the Kiev regime is already approaching the "final victory". This propaganda is almost identical to the propaganda in the Third Reich while it was losing its first battles with the Soviet Union. Whenever the "advances" stop or are reverted, people are being fed hysterical conspiracy theories claiming that the latest local militias' successes are due to the evil Russian Federation.

Russia, the Russian people, and the Russian politicians are being constantly spitted upon, criticized for their interactions with the Russian speakers in Ukraine as well as for the lack of interactions with the Russian speakers in Ukraine, and blamed for all results of the current Western leaders' stupidity, inconsistency, and immorality. It is only going to be fair if Russia ultimately does something it has been accused of for such a long time, e.g. to take over Ukraine. The CSTO, a six-country military bloc around Russia, is ready to send peacekeepers to Ukraine once all the member states agree with the operation.

Meanwhile, Barack Obama and others continue to spread some unbelievable lies about Russia's responsibility for the 2,500+ casualties of the conflict. Russia hasn't done a damn thing to threaten lots of lives in Ukraine. Those whose memory is better than the memory of a piece of šit know very well that it was also the Western politicians who were encouraging the violent coup in Kiev since November 2013, who were spitting on the legitimate president Yanukovitch who was only using rubber bullets, and so on. The spark of this dissatisfaction was Yanukovitch's totally legitimate decision to veto a (lousy) treaty with Brussels. Now, the unelected Obama-backed fascist junta along with a semi-elected president is performing overt ethnic cleansing, killing thousands of people, and these things should be morally OK? Have you lost the last traces of your decency? Have you lost your mind? They're really doing exactly the same thing against their citizens of a different nationality that Saddam Hussein was doing against the Kurds, and so on. Even the number of the casualties has become comparable.

Certain people in the West are creating an immense amount of mess and they never seem to be punished for that. It's enough if they make their stupid aß-licking media repeat even more preposterous excuses than they did last time and their skin is saved. I hope that they – or at least their puppets in Kiev – will be punished (in the case of the Kiev government, I probably mean "killed") so that the deterioration of the Western society is at least slowed down a little bit. So even though the economy and the assets of people like me suffer, I do hope that Russia et al. will actually enter Ukraine soon and truncate the sky-reaching arrogance of the people who are currently trying to force the whole Ukrainian society into obedience. And I don't mean those 10 soldiers who got lost. I don't even mean the 1,000 soldiers on vacations whose presence in Ukraine was called "invasion" yesterday. I mean a real invasion. Despite the Kremlin's immensely calm behavior, I am pretty sure that most of the Russian citizens want the real invasion of Ukraine to being as soon as possible and I am with them.

So far, unlike Russia that isn't doing anything to escalate the situation, some Eastern European countries whose main pride is all about their hatred towards the Russian do childish things to escalate the situation on a daily basis. The Kiev parliament penned a bill to apply for NATO membership – almost certainly a red line for Russia. Meanwhile, Poland blocked its airspace for the Russian defense minister who just wanted to return from Slovakia (where he attended the celebrations of the anniversary of the 1944 Slovak National Uprising against the clerofascist regime) to his home. He had to land in Bratislava again. One can't assume that the Poles would behave rationally, as adults. Ukraine quickly closed its airspace for the minister, too. In the case of Ukraine, I won't even discuss whether they're mature because it's a waste of time. If it weren't enough for one day, Britain proposed to prevent the SWIFT global payment system from doing business with Russia and to stop the import of caviar and diamonds from Russia.

P.S.: I had to blacklist about 7 new fascist bullies who were trying to dictate me what I can watch, what I can think, and what I can write. As I have stressed many times, this intimidating behavior is well beyond my red line and won't be tolerated.

P.P.S.: By the evening, the anti-Kiev militias have claimed that they have shot 4 extra SU-25 planes that were on a mission to kill them. Last month, the Kiev airforce had 36 SU-25 planes – and over 100 planes in total – so a few similarly successful weeks could basically eliminate the Ukrainian airforce. Also, the militias have seized 14 T-64 tanks, 25 infantry fighting vehicles, 18 armored personnel carriers, one armored reconnaissance and patrol vehicle, one Uragan multiple launch rocket system, two Gvozdika self-propelled artillery guns, four D-30 howitzers, four mortars, one ZU-23-2 air defense system and 33 vehicles. just in the week of August 16-23. They really do not need any big inflows from Russia or elsewhere at this point. Unfortunately, the only way to stop the misunderstanding of some Western Ukraine warmongers that they are facing just a group of terrorists – rather than something like 1/2 of a nation – is to kill them.

I hope that the militias will take Mariupol in coming days. This city of almost 500,000 million dwellers was established by the Cossacks – if you don't know, the main job of the Cossacks was to defend the Russian Empire. It would be really crazy if the city were supposed to change to an anti-Russia base. I don't think that the Russian speakers around that place will allow such a thing. See how proud the anti-Kiev warriors are about their recent advances; that page is a high-quality expert war front reporting, I would say.

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reader Ondřej Hataš said...

Regardless the russian right to have Crimea, and regardless the circumstances of it's takeover - there has been no legitimacy in the "referendum"...


reader Luboš Motl said...

Legitimacy is in the eyes of the beholder. Some people may invent excuses why a referendum is illegitimate. But if someone tries to prevent millions of people who are clearly going to be suppressed by an illegitimate nationalist government from declaring independence or joining a safer parent country, I find this person – in this case you – utterly inhuman and immoral.


reader Tom said...

Lubos, I sure wish you would quit pulling your punches when you talk about the Ukraine, you must want to be a pundit on MSNBC or something.

Seriously, your map of American attitudes likely hangs on the wall in the offices of Obama and Kerry as it surely captures the mind of what passes for America’s foreign policy establishment. I am mostly in accord with your views on the Ukraine situation, although I don’t quite go as far as hoping for full-on invasion by Russia. I do hope, and believe, Putin will play his cards so well that the majority Russian speaking regions of Eastern Ukraine eventually rejoin the Motherland and open a land bridge to the Crimean. Seems pretty obvious that only that will lead to a long-term equilibrium, given the preponderance of Power.

Putin’s luck does now seem to be running high as Obama appears determined to push his kingship notion of the US presidency to the point of constitutional crisis over his diktats on immigration and climate BS. Probably nothing Putin would plausibly do could prompt any response from Obama so preoccupied.


reader CarbonBasedLifeform said...

It seems that your 11 dimensional cranium strings somehow tangled together. If you like wikileaks, try 06KYIV4489 and 09KYIV1728 cables.


reader Uncle Al said...

"10 soldiers" "<40+ million people" Spetsnaz. If were one soldier, then a Texas Ranger.


"Fifth column" attacks! The Obama administration has allocated $(USD)43 billion to conceptualiize, design, and fabricate a vast number of air-deployable carbon composite quinquebalusters to be dropped upon enemies, Doric vs. ionic vs. corinthian studies are being intensively PERT-charted for execution at Bryn Mawr ($38 billion estimated cost).



NASA protests it can do half the job at twice the price with no deliverables at all.


reader Luboš Motl said...

Dear Tom, I think that Putin in particular is way too calm and he will behave as you would because the continuing slow mess in Ukraine is the right compromise for his plans and image, it's what he wants. He may obviously exert almost infinitesimal forces for him if he wants to keep the Ukrainian situation in chaos. The chaos is good for him domestically because everyone sees what a disaster one gets without Putin and his attitude. It's good for Russia to let Ukraine "blood" because it reduces some danger, too. However, it is not good for Ukraine and it is not good for most of the Western politicians to get the lesson they badly need.


reader Luboš Motl said...

If I generously ignore the first sentence, what do you find interesting about the two documents?


reader Tom said...

Dead on, Putin really is one savvy dude, probably deeper than any other politician on the world stage. As for the West, my view is that Liberalism’s hegemony renders its politicians impervious to empirical reality - almost probability 1 that only catastrophe can disabuse the West’s conceptions.


reader K said...

Lubos, I'm a huge fan of most of your iconoclast positions, but this one regarding the Ukraine gives me great pause. I agree with you that the media often gets things wrong. But I'm wondering if you've ever studied the video interviews of former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov? He speaks of how the KGB creates propagandist narratives for smart people outside Russia to buy in to and become their "useful idiots" that serve Russian interests while being in truth completely misguided. I'm sure you are aware Putin's background is pure KGB and you are smart enough to figure out that his propagandists are doing their best to recruit the smartest useful idiots they can to help undermine opposition to their grabs for power. I'm begging you to reevaluate your position on this and see what you are doing more clearly, but I'm not hopeful because you seem to dig your heels in very firmly once you've reached an opinion, and you likely won't even let this post appear on your blog, but maybe you'll at least read it first. Your posts on this subject sadden me greatly to read.


reader John Archer said...

I think a little light editing is order:

Certain people in the West are creating an immense amount of mess and ... I hope that they ... will be ... killed ....

There now! That's much more to my liking.

Approximately 100% cull of our political classes should sort things out nicely. Who needs external enemies with that bunch?

And then we could set to work on getting rid of that hideously alien turd-world immigrunt festering sore in our midst.

It's a funny old world — I never thought I'd see the day when I was rootin' for Putin. It's not that I'm a Russophile (I don't have anything against them either) but I'd love to see him kick the shit out of the camermoron traitor, the muslime obanana bwana, the EU scum ... and bury them all. And bliar and brown and clegg ...?

By the way, if you're an EU-loving Ukrainian and reading this and thinking of coming to my country, FUCKING DON'T. We have enough shit here already. Rotherhamistan is just the tip of the iceberg.

I'm sorry about what's happening to the people in Ukraine. I really do hope that just for once those responsible get to be dealt with in the harshest possible manner. I'd like to see them all impaled on a huge spit, roasting for eternity.

Baroness Ashton impaled! Mmmm Lovely! That would make my day.

And tomorrow we could do some more, and the day after that some more ... well, you get the idea. A mega-revenge fest.


reader raV said...

"I do hope that Russia et al. will actually enter Ukraine soon and truncate the sky-reaching arrogance of the people who are currently trying to force the whole Ukrainian society into obedience."



Are you sure you took your pills before writing this post?


reader BMWA1 said...

Problem here is the factor of duress, could a Kiev led by Tays and Turch be expected to abide by the UA constitution and allow a referendum? Certainly not. The Krim referendum was opportunistic and sloppy, but the alternative was no referendum at all.


reader zara said...

Dear Lubos, you are completely ignorant of the real situation in Ukraine (I am Ukrainia by the way -- don't judge from my ip...). The "referendum" indeed wasn't illegitimate and the result 98% is fake! There is information that Ukrainians living in Crimea and Crimean-Tatars didn't vote at all and that majority of these pro-ukrainian people who "vote for Russia" where intimidated. It's nonsense to recognize a referendum organized by Crimean criminals and the presense of Russian soldiers.


reader zara said...

Lubos, do you have any proof that there are american soldiers fighting in Ukraine against russians?
Russia indeed invided Ukraine, and it's not only these 10 soldiers that was captured. They are much more and it's a stupid lie that they are on vacation... Recently the organization of mothers of russian soldiers posted lists of russian soldiers (among them their sons) that are missed, killed or injured (hundreds of them already). There is information that they were forced to go to Ukraine and fight against Ukrainian soldiers. There are also evidences of russian tanks, artilerry etc. crossing Ukrainian border from Russian. And much more. But it seems that you are watching russian propagandistic news channels only and that's why you are so ignorant. So probably you should express yo opinion on things that you have no idea... By the way have you heard anything about Budapest memorandu?


reader mesocyclone said...

It's clear that Putin's clever invasion strategy has had the desired effect on Lubos' thinking.

Putin knows that a straight forward invasion of the Ukraine would likely provoke a strong reaction, because it would be an obvious violation of national sovereignty and of the Westphalian system of international governance that has long been used to somewhat civilize international relations.

So, Putin uses subterfuge. It's pretty classic Soviet style subterfuge, which is to say, just subtle enough to fool anyone who sort-of wants to believe that Russia isn't responsible - i.e. not subtle at all. This only soothes or fools those with sympathies towards the side Russia is aiding, or those who don't want to confront the fact that their nation might need to take action against Russia.

Hence, the invasion of Crimea by soldiers who are not wearing any unit identification (a violation of international law, btw). Hence, the primary effort of supplying arms and expert leadership to the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine rather than a more obvious invasion of lots of Russian troops. Hence, the slow invasion - a few troops disguised as drivers of an "aid convoy" that the ICRC refuses to sanction; a small unit of heavy artillery (now firing at Ukrainian forces from within the Ukraine).

This isn't western propaganda, and prior western bias in reported should not be used to paint all western reporting as wrong. This is reality. The fact that the Western media painted a one-sided picture of the initial uprising is not a sign of western government propaganda, but rather the press's long standing bias towards liking anyone who appears very western (e.g. the Maidan forces, or the tiny minority in the "Arab Spring" uprising in Egypt) or anyone (say, Hamas' terrorists) who appear to be oppressed.

Regardless of the rightness or the wrongness of the cause of the separatists, Putin's behavior should alarm anyone who cares about peace. He may miscalculate and start a big war. The US or NATO might miscalculate in their responses to the same effect. If Putin succeeds, he may just keep on slowly reconstituting the old USSR by land grabs until he forces a confrontation. Western weakness might cause him to use the tactics in the Baltic states, where the US has treaty obligations to respond with force - with incalculable results. Beyond that, it is hardly in the interests of peace or democracy for a large nuclear armed power, headed by an autocrat, to use force, covert or overt, to add to its territory. We do not need a repeat of 1939.

Additionally, Putin has clearly violated a nuclear arms treaty negotiated between Russia, the US and the Ukraine. This is a very dangerous precedent, and provides ample ammunition to the next US president with balls to justify the US breaking the nuclear test ban treaty (which we need to do to test our aging warheads) and to breaking SALT (which Russia is violating anyway, along with INF).


reader Rami Niemi said...

Oh lord! One has to have huge brain power to endure cognitive dissonance of your scale. Please stop following RT and start long and painful healing process.


reader Luboš Motl said...

Hi, I have never claimed that there are American soldiers fighting in Ukraine. I wrote that there are Americans fighting in Ukraine. Sure that I have proofs.


reader Swine flu said...

As just one example, the newsfeed from BBC contains, at this moment, an article called "Nato accuses Russia of violating Ukraine sovereignty". Now, the popular press can say the most idiotic things, but this is more of an official statement that must be implicitly backed by many if not all Western governments. Are most Western governments just a bunch of idiots who have no clue what's going on in Ukraine?


reader mesocyclone said...

No, they know full well what is going on. Russia is violating Ukraine sovereignty by any reasonable definition. What else does one call the movement of troops into a neighboring country? For that matter, what else does one call the forcible takeover of a province of another country, followed by formal anexation of it (Crimea)?


reader Luboš Motl said...

Sorry, no, unlike you, I have never learned anything from writings by KGB agents.


The 25,000 Russian soldiers were in Crimea totally legally, according to a Ukrainian-Russian treaty, and calling the completely normal community of Russian speakers in Crimea who didn't recognize the coup government "criminals" just because they're Russian only says something about you, namely that you are an asshole, not about them.


reader Luboš Motl said...

I have been immensely interested in politics since my childhood which is a part of the reason why I understand it more than you and 500 million similar brainwashed sheep combined, and following it closely also means critically watching and reading key sources, and RT is definitely at the top when it comes to the Ukrainian crisis. So I assure you that I will not stop following RT. If you have problems with that, please go cry into your fascist leader's ass, not here.


reader Luboš Motl said...

Yes, unfortunately.


reader Luboš Motl said...

Clearly, I won't be able to stop your mental breakdown ignited by psychological projection, but let me nevertheless try to point out that I am not taking any pills.


reader Luboš Motl said...

Jesus Christ, these are so idiotic rants. You are just saying that you are ready to believe that all bad things are occurring due to an arbitrarily weak, homeopathic effect of "evil Russians". They're so evil that their infinitesimal action is enough to spoil otherwise great plans of the Kiev politicians to construct a rosy future.


Give me a break with this stuff.


Russia doesn't need to look at idiots in the "international public opinion". The brainwashed inferior sheep in the West like you will be against Russia, anyway. Once Russia really enters Ukraine, I assure you that there won't be any doubts about it. We will just see.


reader ducktale said...

Why do you accuse Poles of acting in irrational way, while the Russians are those who didn't behave like adults should?

This flight was marked as military one, so it should have permission to fly over Poland from Polish Army. This rule applies to absolutely all military flights over Poland. For some reason, Russians decided not to apply for this kind of permission, so they were refused to enter polish airspace. This is a normal reaction in this situation. Probably, Russians didn't keep to the most standard procedures so their newspapers could have something to write about. Now, this flight changed its status to civilian one, an the plane is allowed to fly over Poland. Please, stop using Russia Today etc. as your main source of information.

kind regards


reader Rami Niemi said...

Has RT reported three incident of Finnish airspace violations by Russian aircrafts in one week? One registered to FSB.

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/art-1288731309846.html?pos=ksk-nln

Or Submarine harassing ferry in Finnish coast?

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288731403032.html?pos=ok-nln


reader Rami Niemi said...

"Once Russia really enters Ukraine, and it has all the natural rights to do so according to the bulk of the country's population, I assure you that there won't be any doubts about it. We will just see." Get a grip, cos i like your blog.


reader Luboš Motl said...

Probably yes, RIA novosti surely did.


reader Rami Niemi said...

Calling opponents fascist? Where have I heard this before?


reader raV said...

Dear Sir!

You clearly have problems with distinguishing projection form empathy which you clearly lack. Here's a link. Mabe it'll help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

and since your analytical brain need some data here's an experiment, how the spoiled, immoral west civilisation is acting on daily basis vs your beloved, humble easterners:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=438sGy9IE58&list=UUtHimY-CLBNM_Rn79-T7ZQA

you should rally spent some time off the grid and get real life.


reader Luboš Motl said...

In the movies about the Second World War.


reader mesocyclone said...

Lubos, your rant and ad homenim comments do you no credit.

I am stating facts, and they have nothing to do with whether the politicians in Kiev are good guys or bad guys. It is a fact that Russians, not just russophile Ukranians, are a significant factor in the killing in eastern Ukraine. It is a fact that Russian artillery is in the Ukraine (and yes, I do trust the US military in that regard, based on long experience and having served in it). It is a fact that Russian special forces are serving in the Ukraine. It is a fact that Russian news media have been putting out all sorts of lies about the situation.

As to brainwashing, I was studying Soviet (and Cuban and Vietnamese) propaganda when you were a little kid. I know it when I see it. You appear to be the one brainwashed, as evidenced by the fact that you give so much credit to RT, which is an obvious propaganda outfit and prints whatever BS suits the Putin regime.

As for Russia's "natural rights" - you sound like the Germans in the late 30's. Do you have no regard for the international system we have established? Ethnicity is, properly, not the criterion for the determination of rights - rather, we have states with formally recognized boundaries, and we have democratic systems. None of these are perfect, but they are preferable to foreign invasion and foreign meddling. And yes, many countries including the US have been guilty of meddling, but that doesn't make it right when Russia does it.

If you wish to write this off as another "idiotic rant," it shows you unwilling to address the far-from-idiotic points raised.


reader mesocyclone said...

There are also Americans in ISIS, but that doesn't make them, or a few Americans in Kiev, representative of US policy. On the other hand, Russian forces in eastern Ukraine crossed there from Russia and are clearly operating as part of Russian policy, as evidenced by the strong propaganda support for them in Russian media. We aren't talking about 10 Russians - we are talking about artillery units, and about many, many other Russians.


reader mesocyclone said...

And you don't just need Bezmenov for this information. The KGB did this for 70 years or so, and there has been tons of evidence. It's sad, but not at all unusual, when otherwise smart people fall for this sort of propaganda. It reminds me of the CPUSA members in the US who were strongly anti-fascist until the pact between the USSR and Nazi Germany, at which point they became strong supporters of the Nazi's, until Germany violated the pact by invading the USSR, at which point they once again became strongly anti-fascist. Many of these people were also highly intelligent (and I knew a couple of them) but they were easily fooled by the KGB.


reader mesocyclone said...

RT is quite interesting if one wants to study propaganda. It reminds me very much of Radio Moscow, which I monitored for years as part of my interest in propaganda. I suppose it has a marginal utility in that it might occasionally show actual facts that other media miss, but make no mistake, it is a


reader trump said...

lubos - you really lost it. stick to physics or maybe math / no wonder harvard was no match for you , your lack of balance and objectivity is obvious both with strings and politics.


reader rem said...

Could you please separate the posts in your blog in two RSS feeds, so that one can subscribe to scientific posts or political posts or both. I really enjoy you scientific writing but your political views... oh dear!


reader zara said...

Lubos, you are constantly talking that the Ukrainian government is nazi etc. but you are probably not aware that there are many russian nazis and russian nazi organization figthing on the side of pro-russian separatists. Even the self proclaimed "People's Governor" of the DNR, Pavel Gubarev, was a member of russian nazi organizaition "Russian National Unity". Surprised, right?

As for "kiev hunta" and legitimacy of Poroshenko. First of all, the Ukrainian parliament and the deputates that consist the current Ukrainian government, were elected by people at legitimate and democratic elections, long before the revolution.. Secondly, Poroshenko was also elected as president of Ukraine by ukrainian people... As for Yanukovich, he stoped being legitimate after giving orders to kill tens of protesters and for not keeping his promises. Yanukovich was a criminal and his family was rulling the Donets mafia. It's not strange that he became bilioner while being a president...


reader zara said...

Have you considered to watch some Ukrainian news? Don't you think that this is reasonable to do when we are talking about situation IN UKRAINE? Russia is the aggressor (it's not a civil war) and watching the most propagandistic russian channel is simply stupid. What you are writing is not your opinion or ideas, it's exactly what is said on these propaganda russian chanels...


reader zara said...

by the way there is new Ukrainian channel called "Ukraine today" in english...


reader scooby said...

No movement of troops. Only peaceful russian tourists on vacation. Wearing khakis and armed to the teeth to better integrate with the local natives.


reader Rehbock said...

Did they bring some none year olds to use the machine guns? That is what american tourists would do.


reader John Archer said...

I have a question for you, K.

Do you consider the EU to be a good thing and that they were right to make overtures to the Ukraine?


reader slowlearner said...

Lubos, I am constantly amazed at your perceptive reasoning on this matter (physics is well-known worldwide, of course). It is sobering (and frightening) to read your (imho 100% correct) assessment. Your sense of history, at least European history, is deep and profound. Unlike many of the commentators in the media, you do not hold prejudices (e.g., you were vehemently against communism in Russia, not against Russians per se). Perhaps the views closest to you in the US is the libertarian view ?



Like raV and others in disagreement here, I confess I too was completely brainwashed for many years by the so-called "free" mainstream media here in the US. Your writings have over time slowly but surely opened my eyes on this (and AGW!), even if it was hard for me at first. So keep writing, there is still some hope for the rest of us! :)


reader Svik said...

The west ukrane from Kiev started this fight and they will loose it as the east ukrane is more just and interested in peace.

East ukrane has every right to refuse to join the western rebellion. The key is to respect the rights of minorities and uphold true justice.


reader efalken said...

Russia is big and doesn't mind casualties. I see a Finland-type solution: initial defeats but overwhelming force, and a Russia-friendly treaty.


reader Democritus said...

RT News is most definitely a mouthpiece of Russia. No problems watching it as long as one understand the bias. Lots of media 'news' have such bias. Remember, RT was created by the Russian government by ministers close to Putin. They tend to do a good job with news unrelated to Russian policy but a hopeless bias in regards to Russian related issues.


reader Luboš Motl said...

If someone invents clearly deliberate and insidious bureaucratic restrictions in order to cause problems to someone else, he shouldn't be surprised when his country will get a stamp "reserved for liquidation".


reader Luboš Motl said...

Finland cooperated with the USSR much more than you indicate.


However, today, it's not just "Finland-type" solution. My country and lots of other countries including the European powers had these peaceful relationships with Russia and even with the USSR for 70 years.


reader Cyril said...

I really don't understand why USA can invade other countries without even asking the opinion of people who live there but they say that Russia has annexed Crimea although there was the referendum.


I live near Moscow. But I don't watch Russian TV or read newspapers in Russian or anything related to Russian media. I read the Independent and listen to the BBC World Service and I am so angry with the West. Why they are so desperately trying to injure Russia?


By the way I don't see any point in these sanctions. There aren't any changes at all in the products which I can buy during the last several months.


There is no sense in the war that is going on in Ukraine. It will lead only to recession and consequences for people who live there will be terrible. It's sad to see that children there are playing with father's weapon and not with Lego.


reader Luboš Motl said...

I am following Kyiv Post and, less frequently, 4 other Ukrainian sources including Ukrainian-language-based - as much as I do follow RT and as much as my stomach allows, despite the fact that these sources are currently all about vacuous hatred against Russia and spreading of conspiracy theories that are usually shown untrue within at most 24 hours.


reader Luboš Motl said...

I know exactly what Gubarev is a member of. I am not a member but Gubarev's party is much more acceptable from my viewpoint than the average party currently in charge of Kiev.


Oh, I see. So Yanukovitch ordered to kill tens of protesters - which is a lie, anyway - and that made him illegitimate. But when the current fascist junta kills 2,000 people, it's OK, isn't it? The double standards of fascists like you are unbelievable.


reader mesocyclone said...

Heh. You should apply for a job at RT ;-)


reader Luboš Motl said...

Could you please reduce the amount of similar trash you are posting on my blog at least by an order of magnitude? Thanks.


reader Shannon said...

Totally agree with you Lubos and thanks for this post. And I can tell you that there is a growing resentment against the US on their geopolitics. The US are invading other countries in complete violation of international laws. They manipulate media like mad. They want to install chaos because it serves them well.
I hope that Putin will control Donbass. It will be a V-sign to the occidental pervert bastards who are in power in the US/Israel.
The US is NOT a Christian society. They have no ethics.They belong to the sionist/islamist soup that we are being served everyday.


reader ducktale said...

What you call bureaucratic restrictions are in fact basic rules that should be obeyed in all civilized countries. No overgrown bureaucracy here, only simple legalism - a standard way of acting in countries with non-barbaric legal systems, in opposition to legal pragmatism typical for countries that are savage or degenerated.

For some reasons, Russians had never had any problems with applying for polish permissions up to yesterday. Allowing this flight to enter polish airspace without all needed formalities, would be a form of partial renunciation of sovereignty - so it couldn't happen. But, let's be honest, who do you (you yourself and the Russians) want to fool? Do really think that in opposite situation, Russia would allow polish flight to enter their airspace? Or maybe any other country would allow such thing? USA? France? China? Australia?

This was obviously a Russian provocation against Poland. It would have been enough if they had declared the flight as civilian, as they should have done from the beginning, to be in agreements with their permissions. Today all the comments in their newspapers newspapers do not describe any hard facts, but are nothing more than purely emotional propagandist szit, and for some sad reason, instead of thinking for yourself, you swallow this szit like a young pelican. You get too emotional every time when you want to write anything about Russia.
In Poland there are similar people, but they are usually total loons, like some neonazis from xportal, national-bolsheviks, hardcore-communists etc. Do you really want to sing in the same choir together with all those creeps?
I'm not a hardcore defender of Ukraine, I personally think that Poland is more involved in this conflict far more than it should be. Poland has some unfinished business with Ukraine (with Russia too, of course), and some comments of ukrainian politicians musn't be tolerated by Poland. I haven't recently become ukrainophile like some Poles have (in Poland ukrainophillia is a form of russiophobia), but it's not a reason for me to tolerate Russian anti-polish szit, especially that kind of extremely smelly szit, and I'm very very disappointed that you decided to stand together with Russia's propagandists against Poland, at least in this particular matter.

Regards


reader Shannon said...

Some French are joining in :
http://en.ria.ru/interview/20140821/192221460/Donetsk-Self-Defense-Forces-Joined-by-French-Volunteers.html


reader Oleg said...

Some facts on the purported "Russian invasion": the OSCE has not seen any Russian incursion into the Ukranian territory. Just check their newsroom (also confirmed by the head of the Ukraine mission, Paul Picard):

http://www.osce.org/press

If those guys (whose full time job is to monitor the border) haven't seen it, who would ?

The Ukranian Security Council also refuted the rumour of invasion:

http://www.svoboda.org/content/article/26551663.html



(the page remains in Russian only, I guess the English one has been taken down as compromising -- the practice used by the BBC).


So much for the Russian invasion ?



PS: the amateurish satellite images produced by a private company without time stamps/coordinates are not really worth discussing


reader ktahn said...

I GOT CASH!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvpkK3Q95Kc


reader Luboš Motl said...

Russia has been sending its defense minister in an aircraft all over Europe for something like a century, from the moments when the airplanes became common enough, and it has always been able to get whatever was necessary to allow the airplane to fly from European countries back to Moscow. That is strong enough evidence for me to be sure that the mistake occurred on the Polish side, not the Russian side.


reader Luboš Motl said...

Just an update on the corridor. Putin asked the militias to allow the Ukrainian soldiers to peacefully escape from the encirclement and the militia commanders actually approved the plan.

Kiev vetoed the humanitarian plan and decided to sacrifice the soldiers. So these poor chaps, today in the morning, went to shoot their way through the encirclement. Of course, 100 of them had to be killed

http://zn.ua/UKRAINE/rossiyskaya-artilleriya-pod-ilovayskom-rasstrelyala-gumkoridor-okolo-100-pogibshih-istochniki-151846_.html



This is a Ukrainian source describing how it ended - just to be sure that the fascists who don't consider Russian sources good enough will be satisfied.


These poor 100 kids were pretty much killed by the Kiev government.


reader Mikael said...

Dear Lubos,
readers of your blog know that you have some contacts to former Czech president Klaus. Is he sharing your sentiment and your pro Russian view?


reader Shannon said...

...and on par with Israel (my opinion).


reader Casper said...

"The fact that the Western media painted a one-sided picture of the initial uprising is not a sign of western government propaganda, but
rather the press's long standing bias towards liking anyone who appears very western etc"

Mr Mesocyclone appears to be very simple minded concerning western propaganda. If our cartoonish media clowns were really this innocent why then did all the western politicians also indulge in the orgy of Putin bashing? Might we not expect them to be slightly more mature or did they just jump on the bandwagon to chase more votes?


As far as I can make out the western politicians have totally fucked up the Middle East but we do not read about this in the newspapers. Rather we read that it is all the fault of the evil Islamic fundamentalists.



Now we see that the western politicians' meddling in Ukraine has sparked off a response from the evil Russians and a civil war. But don't worry, its all good. As Mr Mesocyclone indicates, he can't wait for the nuclear test ban treaty to disappear and the military spending to skyrocket into the stratosphere even further than it already is.


reader de^mol said...

As for Poroshenko, he is a CIA agent. So far about 'democracy':
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV1706_a.html#efmAZUAZ-
As for Yanukovitch and 'given orders to kill tens of protesters', strong evidence point to the exact opposite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXlcZHqLEgw

Oh, and by the way, this phone call was confirmed by the Estonian ministry.


reader Fernando said...

A private company, but with a good relationship:

DigitalGlobe gains U.S. govt license to sell sharper satellite imagery


reader Luboš Motl said...

Essentially Yes. We didn't synchronize it in any way and it is not really a pro-Russian view. It is a rational and fair view.


reader mesocyclone said...

The politicians are bashing Putin because he goes against their impulses, which are largely informed by the same sort of naive logic that informs the media. As for the Middle East, the US media has been loudly and consistently blaming Bush for screwing it up. Since they favor Obama, they are slow to blame him.


reader ducktale said...

Wow, you'are really blindfolded. Of course, that Russian minister flied many times to many places, and if the Russians really had wanted to enter polish airspace, they would have done it without any problems. All that they had to do was either to get the appropriate permission (these are needed even for Air Force 1), or to declare the flight as a civilian one. Nothing less, nothing more. Finally, they did decided to change the status of the flight and they did fly over Poland! But initially, it was they, who caused this legal problem, and any civilized lawful country musn't break it's own law for any pragmatic reasons. Polish Army did gave an absolutely clear explanation. They (Polish Army) were doing nothing more than only keeping to the extremely simple and non-repressive-by-any-measure procedures which they have been unconditionally applying to all ministers of all countries for years. Russians did not gave any explanation for their non-standard behavior, and what's even worse, instead of giving some, they've decided to threaten my country, to menace us with some kind of revenge, to write a lot of szit about thanklessness towards country that defended us from fascism... Oh, for some reason, they forgot to mention, that they haven't apologize us for Polish Operation, Ribentrop-Molotov pact, NKVD crimes after the war, stealing natural resources or pieces of art from my country etc. Some time ago, when Yeltsin apologized for Katyn, it seemed that we could have a nice future together. Now, they have returned to liying about their soviet past, bullying other nations, including us, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, Sweden, Finland. They don't have even enough decency to give us back the wreck of presidential aeroplane that have crashed in Smolensk. And they would like us to treat them in any special, privileged way? To treat them better than we treat presidents of USA, France or let's say China? To break our own well defined law for them?

No. Despite all of this, we didn't treat them in any disrespectful, or discriminatory way. They were treated in fair way, with exactly the same rules as other countries. That's all.

And you didn't even answer my question - what do you think Russia would do in an opposite situation? Can you tell my with a hand on your heart that with a confidence not less than 68.3% (it's not much) in similar situation Russia would allow any Polish plane to enter their airspace?

And one more thing: please stop talking szit about how legalism was a part of communism, because it wasn't. Lack of legalism is a typical feature of totalitarian systems. It was Stalin, NKVD, Polish UB and later SB, polish communist generals etc. who were breaking their own law all the time. If our generals were abide the law of their own country, there wouldn't be any shameful intervention during Prague Spring. This intervention was illegal, as well as killings of members of polish opposition was illegal, martial law was illegal etc etc One of the main purposes of law should be to defend people from he state, and that's why lefties always choose pragmatism over legalism. And now I'm totally shocked that you make such a choice too. Do you have such believes all the time or only when Russia is involved?


reader Luboš Motl said...

Look, I was not the victim of this particular harassment so I don't really want to waste much time on meaningless exchanges about the incident with anonymous assholes on the Internet. But no amount of would-be legalist babbling can change the fact that blocking the airspace for a defense minister of a major European power who is just returning from a celebration of an anti-fascist uprising in WW2 is a hostile, malicious, immature, and counterproductive provocation and it would be very natural for Russia to respond in an adequate way.


reader Swine flu said...

non sequitur
noun


a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.


reader Svik said...

What will the Brits do in a month when the Scotts vote to leave england? Send the troops to the negotiate with terrorists and kill them all??

Oh wait they already did that about 300 years ago. Killed every noble Scott they could find.

Better stock up on beans and smoked sheep head!!


reader Duperray said...

Lubos,

I fully share your opinions, in fact mine are amazingly identical to yours, which makes me happy for not be fully stupid!

I am blogging a little with US based conservative sites and although they share my global warming "denier" position, they are at odds with me. The most common striking point everybody sees at first glance is that common people US bloggers are supremely sure of themselves, supremely sure about America dominancy, its mission to control the World having fallen from Heavens, and so on... They express an abyssal contempt of everything which is not american in every matter. Let me show you a live example, which is part of an answer to my challenging "US is so great that still 18% (48millions) need daily "food stamps" (public assistance) to survive".

The answer: "I bet the 99.5% (russian) that aren't oligarchs would kill for a reliable food stamp program"...
No comment!

Media are totally politically driven and brain format population with very little left freedom - indeed just allowing Dems and Republicans to argue a bit to maintain illusion of free democrcay - that even my brother living there, married with an american woman thinks exactly same as other americans, despite he is of european culture and same parents as me!!

During the 40 years of my international career (ironically in 3 successive US companies, although I am european) I met with many highly educated american engineers, businessmen,.. which all shaw considerable respect of foreign culture and were almost all of very very low "pro-america" profile. How many times I heard them telling each other apart "How come such an advanced plant could exist elsewhere than US?" Funny, isn't? Mass population there is so ignorant that 98% of population is unable to tell you the name of next door US State, lying less than 50 miles away!



So, no surprise to see this herd of population believing all media hatred: Treated as a cow herd, which universe is Coca-cola, Mac Donald 4-inch thick sandwich, high sugar & fat diet, having more than 150,000$ debit on their personal credit card (average), rusty car, 25-year duration to reimburse own university loan, then at 50's falling in the kids education cost nightmare, owned house breaking apart after 25 years....
I have been an unconditional US admirer since my youngest age - for 45 years - thence after Kosovo issue I started to question this. Their 9/11 reaction was addressing the wrong foe due to their anti-USSR obcession, still alive today.
Apart from 1950 Korean War and 1991 Desert storm, all their international actions miserably failed, making the entire planet to hate them. But as they are supremely sure of themselves... they dont see ISIS terror and China yuan as their coming Nemesis.


reader Soviet EU said...

USA's true plan is to undermine the power of Russia and the EU simultaneously. But the EU bureaucrats and the mediocre idiots who play the role of presidents and prime-ministers of the european countries are incapable of understanding this simple thing. See Libya, Syria, Irak, former Yogoslavia. Wherever USA has intervened chaos is the only result. Stalinist neoliberal EU is the sheep that follows the shepherd (who is really a wolf). Alas to the poor people of european countries.


reader ducktale said...

You don't listen... you just don't listen. Most simple explanation:

1. no application for permission -> no permission

2. military flight over Poland + no permission -> procedures obligate the fighter aircrafts to intercept the intruder

3. Russia has always applied for permissions for their military flight, but not this time -> provocation

Is it really so hard to understand?
And while our history cannot by an excuse, so why you take as an excuse things which one of the passengers of this plane had done, earlier that day?
You suggest that Polish Army should be concerned if someone wants to violate our airspace because he returns from some celebrations or from someone's grandmother's funeral?? This is insane!

And really please, don't talk szit about about anti-fascism etc. For us, they are now nothing more than a bunch of thieves (they stole a wreckage of our presidential plane) and lairs (they lie all the time: about Katyn, about their presence in Crimea or west Ukraine etc). Being antifascist while praising communism, a system that was at least equally injustice as national socialism, and that killed much more people than nazis (Russia, China, Cambodia, Korea etc) is a fucking hypocrisy. I see no difference between swastika and a red star - for me this is the same szit. Keeping Lenin in a mausoleum instead of flushing him in a toilet, city buses with faces of Stalin, parades with hammers and sickles - for me this is disgusting. So I don't give a damn szit if they are anti-fascist or anti-quantum - their "morals" cannot be an excuse for me. Despite our hard relations they were treated in a fair way.
They knew that Poland has to refuse all military flights without permissions to enter our airspace. They knew it because they have exactly the same procedures. It's an obvious provocation. Their complains are just a pile of szit, and I just cannot understand how anybody can eat it with such pleasure...

I won't write any more comments here because I won't read this blog anymore (and I swear, I've been a reader for many years). I cannot tolerate attacking my country in such way for such reasons.



Regards


reader Shannon said...

Ducktale, why are you being so anal about this ?


reader Shannon said...

Well if the UK join the Euro dictature then Scotland could get the chance of becoming a länder like in Germany.


reader Oleg said...

Hate to break it to you : Pavel Gubarev is Ukranian (born in Ukraine and has a Ukrainian citizenship).


By the way, Nazi propaganda is banned in Russia. And it is Russia who initiated the bill condemning glorification of Nazism at the UN level. 130 countries voted for it and 3 against (US, Canada, Palau; Ukraine abstained).


http://voiceofrussia.com/2012_12_21/US-General-Assembly-says-no-to-glorification-of-Nazism/


reader John Archer said...

"What will the Brits do in a month when the Scotts vote to leave england?"

It seems you're unaware that the Caledonians are 'Brits' too. So, had you known, presumably what you really meant to ask is what will the English do. (I'm not ignoring the Welsh and Northern Irish as they should have a say too, but I can't speak for them.)

If the Caledonians vote Yes then no action — they'll be gone. Nothing to discuss.

If they vote No, then we need a referendum in England to decide whether we should tell them to fuck off anyway. The same goes for Wales and Northern Ireland.

Of course all this plays nicely into the hands of the EU whose main objective is to destroy nation states in any way they can. Incidentally, that creepy lithping girly-boy jockette, Liar Bliar, was/is their handmaiden in this. There were plenty of others too.

My view—based on the DNA, not fairy-tale history—is that we're all very naturally one people in these islands, descendants of the aboriginal hunter-gathers who moved in here as the ice retreated during this last interglacial. The internecine troubles we've had on and off down the millennia were very unfortunate and were caused by tyrant types furthering their own ends while treating the rest of us like shit. They've certainly left their legacy, which the retard romantics, emoting bards and avid 'history readers' have latched onto with fuckwit gusto, but they don't change that fact.

(To be sure, the British demos does NOT include post-1948 immigrants and their progeny, but it especially doesn't include south asians, blacks etc, who should be immediately disenfranchised and repatriated/deported.)

Still, even within one people, if some wish to go their own way, however misguided I believe them to be, then I don't see it's for the rest of us to bar their way.

But even if they vote No, this thing will continue to fester. Jock has a huge chip on his shoulder — he always has had. If he removed it, he could replace it with a nice epaulet. That would give him some more space to carry his deep-fried Mars bars and keep him chomping longer when he takes his lunch break from his state-sector job, if he has a job, that is.

Scotland is overwhelmingly socialist. England isn't. Bliar and Broon were Scots. For what they did to England I regard Jock's revenge-account as more than settled.

"Oh wait they already did that about 300 years ago. Killed every noble Scott they could find."

Well, if true, that would certainly explain the knuckle-dragging state-dependent dross that's left.


reader Luboš Motl said...

Thanks for this understanding! Although I am (probably) in no sensible way anti-American, despite the internal U.S. imperfections that you quote. I just think that different nations are different, they have different values, and different strategies, laws, and habits help them to achieve a better life and success.


It's my belief that all of America sort of understood it rather recently and it has always been a part of the national understanding of the freedom. In recent years, Gleichsheitung became very popular, along with the idiotic assumption that every social arrangement may be successfully copied and exported.


reader Luboš Motl said...

A good point although I wouldn't go far to claim that e.g. Obama is aware that the plan is to weaken Europe along with Russia. He may be just a useful idiot in all of this.