## Saturday, April 20, 2013

### Chechnyan terrorist's favorite videos

An insane combination of ignorance of geography and PC

The hunt for the Boston Marathon terrorists turned out to be faster, more efficient, and more dramatic than I expected. One of the results of the developments is that most Americans want my country to be bombed. ;-)

The Huffington Post offers some helpful graphics to help Twitter to remind itself that Czechia isn't Chechnya. Even the Czech ambassador to the U.S. had to publish a special press release LOL. Also, see this huge collection of tweeting Americans who confused the places, via Jason Brown.

What I find characteristic is the symbiosis of this breathtaking yet proverbial ignorance of geography with the political correctness. All foreign nations are apparently equally good and equally important and it's OK to mix them up in this way. Well, let me tell you something.

Chechnya, the original homeland of the terrorists (well, they're administratively from the adjacent Republic of Dagestan but they're still ethnic Chechen), is a tiny region in the Caucasus with 1.2 million inhabitants who are mostly savages with almost no economic activity. The Czech Republic is a somewhat important cultural nation in the middle of Europe, 1,500 miles away from Chechnya, while Chechnya is just a pain in the neck of Russia.

Chechnya is the most important borderline region that is trying to pump Islam into Russia; Czechia is the most atheist country in the world. The last difference is where the wind really blows from; the Boston Marathon attack was just another terrorist act by Islamic fundamentalists – although ones with an ethnic background that is somewhat unusual in the U.S. After all, they used a cooking explosive right from the Al-Qaeda textbooks.

However, this ethnic background is not unusual for terrorist attacks in Russia at all. (They shouldn't really be called "darker faces" because they're typical Caucasians and "Caucasian" has become a word for the prototype of the white race.) Recall e.g. the 2002 Moscow theater hostage crisis. In the West, some events of this sort are sometimes spun as examples of an evil large nation of Russia that suppresses the freedom warriors such as those in Chechnya.

In reality, these folks are terrorists of the very same kind as those mostly Arab ones that are more familiar in the U.S. But it's a common feature of the double-faced postmodern media to evaluate almost the same event in two diametrically opposite ways – depending on who is the victim.

One of the two attackers, Tamerlan Tsarnaev (the guy who was killed: his brother Dzhokar is in custody now), has favorited five YouTube videos; via the Foreign Policy Blog. Most of them are Russian-language videos and their main goal is to worship Allah or, in one case, to attack the Chechen leaders who co-operate with Moscow. The first video admires Allah because He is a chameleon. The last, English-speaking video is about Allah and as far as I understand, it is a relatively peaceful one. But I can't resist to point out that it is just so stupid. The people who are impressed by this low-brow religious babbling must be extreme morons – (almost) whole nations of morons. Some of them turn out to be killers but this may be just an accidental consequence of their being extreme morons.

I am disturbed by the fact that most of the U.S. media are trying to suppress the debate about the basic identity of the terrorists. It's another example of political correctness run amok, it's what allows so many ordinary Americans to conclude that the terrorists were Czech, and it's extremely dangerous because many extra bad things may happen to you if you don't know your enemies. It seems to me that even when the Americans learn about their Chechen-Czech mistakes, they won't feel guilty because they will think that Czechs shouldn't be insulted if they're compared to the Chechens. Well, the only reason why we're not insulted is that we know very well that most Americans are ignoramuses who don't have a clue about the world behind the U.S. borders (not to mention the Solar System) so we treat them in the same ways as puppies who violate some rules of grammar while barking.

A map of the official countries in the region. Chechnya is a de facto country around Groznyy ["Horrifying, horrible" in Russian] in the map.

Fox News is a positive exception here because the station tries to discuss whether they are Chechen separatists or Islamic terrorists – and concludes it's the latter. I am not 100% certain whether the conclusion is right but I am almost 100% certain that the right description is one of the two descriptions in the Fox News' title.

For those Americans who don't get their data from Fox News, most of these things will remain taboo. So the perpetrators will remain some random people from a nation starting with Č – whether you spell it as Ch or Cz is already beyond their resolution – and the motive and thinking behind the acts will remain an almost complete mystery.

I can't believe it. This result depends on the media's deliberate obfuscation and censorship of the basic facts in the name of (pro-Islam, in this case) political correctness; it also depends on the lack of readers' desire to know the truth. It seems to me that most people who follow these stories don't even dare to ask "Why" i.e. "Why they did it".

An article by Earl Ofari Hutchinson provides us with an insight into the censors' minds: hunt terrorists, not witchhunt Muslims. Nice except that the goal here is to obfuscate that it's probably the Islamic terrorism that Boston has faced.

I am also amazed by articles such as this one in Long Island News. The Russian community in Brooklyn is so surprised that their "compatriots" have done such a thing. The basic message seems to be that Russia is responsible for everything that the Chechens do. In reality, it's just like if you force Americans to apologize for what their compatriots who are Afghani did: Afghanistan has a similar "protectorate" status relatively to the U.S. as Chechnya has relatively to Russia. Would you agree that in the Afghan-American case, it would be crazy?

I am convinced that a vast majority of Russians don't consider to be the very same nation with the Chechens. To say the least, the Russians don't speak the Chechen language – which is an extremely different, archaic language of the Caucasus.

This sort of ignorance about geography is bound to become even worse in the future if the political correctness and the taboos imposed by it continue. In effect, the media and other "official pundits" (which arguably include the schools) are teaching the people not to be interested in the basics of cultures, religions, nation-specific values, and pretty much all differences between various groups of people because they're already building a "unified people". People who don't discuss whether the terrorists were Muslims are apparently labeled "nice" even though a more accurate description would be "uneducated and brainwashed imbeciles".

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's skin is as white as you can get. He is a Caucasian and the "Caucasian" nations are the defining ones for the white race. Still, you may perhaps see something Eastern in his handsome face and being white doesn't protect one from behaving as a savage. In certain nations, this behavior is far more frequent than in others.

1. Nice try Lubos, but the consensus on twitter is they were from Chech Rebublic and that makes you an accomplice!

On a more serious note I've just read they were from Dagestan not Chechnya.

2. Lubos dont be so strict. You probably wouldnt be able to tell the difference between Ghana and Gabon without googling it.

3. With the post-modern (and socialist) driven deterioration of our schools, this will only get worse.
In history it is no longer important to understand where, when, by whom and in which sequence certain events happen.
In geography it is no longer important to know geography (only climate hysteria.)

4. I tend to think that The US is, as are most other countries, populated from top to bottom by ignorant and error prone types, and that it is certainly not just a joke what you wrote, about many American had thoughts of punishing you Pilzeners for these bombings. ;->
I am likewise also almost certain that most non-loaded American right-wingers and left-wingers think of Sweden as a tax-haven. ;)

5. Spot on as ever, Lubos! It is more and more obvious that the biggest threat to humanity is ignorance.

6. Notice that the black guy is the only one who finds it odd that they'd be from the Czech Republic.

7. First Ghana has an "h" then the ending is "na" which is very different from "bon". Even if one doesn't know Africa geography one can easily tell there might be a difference... Any American surely can make the difference between the words "money" and 'honey"... so why can't they do it with countries ?

8. Framed!

Anzor Tsarnaev told the BBC he believed the secret services had framed his sons.

"It was a terrorist attack carefully organised by secret services - I don't know which ones. My son used to go to a mosque, so they once paid us a visit to ask why he is doing that.

"Yes, there was such an episode. So they put all the blame on him and shot him. That's it."

9. The "news" source you cited is nonsense, as I think you know. What Russians consider Chechens compatriots? Not the Russian Brooklynites I know, and they sure aren't surprised.

10. Right, they're from Dagestan but they're ethnic Chechen. Dagestan is the most ethnically heterogenous republic within Russia.

A way to explain that we're innocent is by saying that we're in the camp of republics - rebublics in the other camp are our enemies! ;-)

11. Dear Mephisto, right, my abilities to distinguish Gabon from Ghana are very limited.

But a huge part of this inability is that there's no substantial difference between Ghana and Gabon that would be comparable to the differences between Chechnya and Czechia.

The key point is that I have a clue - they're some countries in the black Africa. When one confuses Chechnya with Czechia, he has no clue.

It would be much more accurate if the terrorists were described as people from the Muslim world - if people don't have a clue what Chechnya means, it brings them no information to cite that they're Chechen.

It's politically incorrect to affiliate people with "civilizations" in this way. Other Muslims shouldn't take a part of the blame for the attacks. Blah blah blah. Let me tell you something. If the Muslim world is blamed for these attacks, it's still more accurate attribution of guilt than when all nations that start with "Če" are held responsible! ;-)

12. Right. Exactly, a good point. Even if I couldn't distinguish Ghana and Gabon on the map and some of their cultural and other properties, I may still recognize the two words.

Those Americans were given the full words but they can't distinguish them even linguistically even though the words are very different!

13. LOL, maybe, there may be some common sense I've seen in some black Americans over the years. On the other hand, I do think that they're educated equally in style, to lower levels in average, and when it comes to the PC indoctrination, they're probably even more PC indoctrinated than the whites. The "independent thinking" flavor of the single tweet is probably too weak a piece of evidence for generalizations.

14. Thanks, right! Fortunately, now it was just a threat for the Czech Republic, not the world, and a very distant threat. ;-)

15. I'm not surprised; a year ago or so an American in US attacked a Greek orthodox priest thinking he was a Taliban.

Anyway after the movie 'Mission impossible' I would expect Americans to know more about Czech Republic.

BTW I lived in Prague for around 7 months and I'm only dreaming of coming back. It's an amazing city with very peaceful and hospitable people.

16. LOL, poor Greeks! I guess a very small percentage of people have seen Mission Impossible, the new one.

It may be that these days, Jagr in NHL (Boston Bruins) could have a bigger impact than the whole movie.

17. Good to see you, Eugene!

Well, I think that the parents' tendency to protect sons surpasses cultures and even species.

18. LOL, right, Swiss-Swedish are almost certainly mixed up, too.

19. Angry people are prone to making mistakes about who they're angry with. See this link for a hilarious example:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society

20. Right. It's a general tendency to replace hard knowledge by some vague emotions for which the right ideological spin, and not facts, is the primary criterion indicating "how good a student is". So in geography and earth sciences, one "learns" environmentalist cliches. In geography and history, one "learns" how the white men have oppressed and are still oppressing everyone else and how it's important to stop it - except that no one knows who are the people who are supposed to be "oppressed" and how they're supposed to differ from the white people.

In physics, one is probably learning how evil physicists such as Bohr and the string theorists oppress the far-sighted seers such as Smolin.

21. LOL. It reminds me of the joke asking: What is the difference between a paedophile and a pedagogue? The difference is that the paedophile actually genuinely loves the children.

22. Certainly the association is ridiculous and could only happen in the US, for whom the rest of the world is a box called "other". At some time we had a lot in the news about Chechen rebels as I am sure most of Europe.

Now the perpetrators of these horrors: Up to now I had attributed islamic based terrorism to their brainwashing, which is a cultural islamic thing: Boys from the age of 12 are taken to schools where they are day and night brain washed on islamic law etc. So intelligence does not play a role. An intelligent brainwashed islamist will just rationalize theologically all the Koran says. We have a similar history in christianity and rationalizations of the worst horrors ( like the inquisition and the crusades).

The younger one has certainly not been to an islamic school, so my hypothesis fails, except if his dead brother, who was late in joining the family in the US is a product of such a school and is the one morally responsible for the horror having inducted his brother.

I have lived through a fundamentalist christian brainwashing up to the age of eighteen ( when I came to the US on scholarship). It was nothing as severe as an islamic school ofcourse, but it is a method of programming peoples' thoughts and behaviors . I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but in retrospect I used my intelligence theologically, in a pc manner for the world view the church was imposing. Similar to how one gets good scientists defending creation scenaria. Fortunately I had a skeptic father so the brain wash did not take.

23. "I have lived through a fundamentalist Christian brainwashing up to the age of eighteen"

Anna, there is no such thing as a fundamentalist Christian. You can't equate Islam with Christianity, the lambs with the wolves. That's political correctness at its extreme. There are no Christian counterparts of Islam fundamentalists. Have you ever seen Christians placing bombs keeling people? They are always on defence.

By its very nature Christianity is a peaceful religion...

24. Intentionally confusing Austria and Australia is a running joke on 4chan.

25. That's strange, Giotis. For some years, we were in profound love with a girl whom I would have surely classified and I still classify as a Christian fundamentalist.

Violence isn't the same thing as fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is to insist on strict adherence to the fundaments of a belief system, usually in its literal form/pillars.

So for me, a Christian fundamentalist is someone who insists that homosexuality is plain evil, God created the world in a week, and so on.

But even if you talk about war-like violence only, Christianity has been very far being innocent here, with all of its crusades, burning at stakes, and so on. It evolved and got regulated by the out-of-the-church-leadership influences so unlike Islam that hasn't evolved, it's compatible with the peaceful Western civilization as we know it today.

But this peacefulness isn't an intrinsic property of Christianity. If you see what the Christians believe in - various horrible experiences in Hell; the right to liquidate offspring if they don't believe in the Bible and even kill the fig tree because it humiliated Jesus by not giving the promised fruits ;-) - you must agree that it's a belief with a lot of revenge and malicious wishes to the others. When I was reading the Bible, I was kind of stunned how many objectionable points there have been in it.

Of course, this critical reading isn't how one is supposed to read it according to fundamentalists such as my girlfriend almost 20 years ago. One is supposed to be in such trouble than any savior is good enough and any savior must be accepted noncritically with all of its features.

26. Of course I do not equate the results of the brainwashing. There exist fundamental christian both in the orthodox church here in Greece and certainly in the protestant offshoots of the US. How the brainwashing functions, by imposing a world view, is my point

27. These two names are very close, of course - they differ by Gore only. OK, I mean "al".

Interestingly enough,their etymological origins are completely different. More precisely, they are exactly orthogonal to one another! And like Sheldon Cooper, I mean *exactly* 90 degrees. ;-)

Austria boils down to aust which is linked to "east", the Eastern regions where the German tribes lived; and Australia boils down to "australis" which means "southern" in Latin.

By mathematical induction, one may also figure out that Australalia is related to the West and Australalalia is related to the North.

28. Well ok what you are saying is basically true but I was referring to the current status of Western world and its relation to Christianity.

For example I could safely debate with a fundamentalist Christian (according to your definition) about various theological issues without any fear for my life. I can't do that with a Muslim.

Of course you would say that contrary to Islam the Western world has evolved; my point is that it has evolved exactly because Christianity allowed Westerners to evolve.

As a belief system (and perhaps this is the point where we disagree) Christianity at its very core sets people free, even though its message and teachings are often distorted by Christian religions. That's not the case for Islam...

29. That's easy. Gabon is full of vipers.

30. Some years back, a Canadian doctor I met had no clue that Sweden and Switzerland were two different countries...

31. ThisCannotBeTheFutureApr 20, 2013, 5:44:00 PM

The first thing my Russian wife said was that Chechens have nothing to do with Russians, so I am equally dubious about that the Russian community would consider Chechens as their own. If anything, most Russians in the U.S. are probably worried that some ignorant Americans won't understand the incredible difference.

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33. When I was living in South Africa Afrikaners couldn't make the difference between Switzerland and Sweden either.

34. Anna, for what kind of brainwashing in Greece you are talking about? This is far from being true.

In fact in Greece we are living under the dominance of leftist ideas where religious people are often ridiculed...

You shouldn't defame our Country in a foreign forum, people get the wrong impression of Greece.

35. The real problem here in the United
States and I fear the rest of the world, is the three key professions
in a democracy, tend to collect the least qualified. That is the
media, education and politics. These three profession are full of
people whom would not make good street sweepers let alone anything else. They to the most part do not know or understand much of anything and exist and operate in a world that if it feels right it must be correct. Unfortunately one of the least qualified educate our children (educators), the other tries to tell us like it is(media), and the third makes out laws(politicians). So it no surprise to me whom to the most part had to educate myself since my learn disabilities were beyond my educators comprehension. Due to that I do not suffer from the inability to understand the difference between
Czech and Chechnya. I also know the in Austria they do not speak Austrian. We cannot say that for our “fine” President, I for one did not vote for that educated idiot but can understand how far the United States has fallen in the basic understanding facts and how
uneducated they truly are since a majority of our citizen bought his BS the second time around. So to me it is no surprise that we have a large number of citizen that do not know the difference between a
person of Czech origin and a person of Chechnya origin. The worst part I not sure that Barack Obama or John Kerry do. I did learn couple of thing from you fine post, first it reinforced that the distance between the two was over a thousand miles and as I figured
you were appalled but not surprised but the collective (God I hate that word) ignorance of my fellow Americans.

36. Well I knew exactly where they were from originally and I remember the slaughter in the Moscow theater and the school where Chechian terrorists murdered a lot of children. Chechians are belly crawling scum. If I was ever going to support genocide Chechnya would be the place.

That said, these two terrorists are essentially home-grown here in the US. This is one thing where I agree with the belly-crawling scum-sucking president of Chechnya.

Both of these brothers came to the US about 10 years ago as children. They got all their ideas while they were here. I expect we will be learning about their imam or mullah or whatever islamo-fascist prick they were following who helped radicalize them and I am certain the entire family is being closely scrutinized, including the uncle in Georgia because the koran allows muslims to deny their religion for the cause.

Islam is a two-faced religion of death, and the West needs to recognize that.

37. So in other words you're mad that we're all relying on a totally ignorant ethnic stereotype, and instead you'd prefer that we rely on a somewhat better-informed ethnic stereotype. Good thinking! :-)

38. "Even the Czech ambassador to the U.S. had to publish a special press release LOL." Yup, Lubos - in the old Hollywood saw, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUBLICITY!

Personally, I'd love to apologize for my fellow American's ignorance about geography - but we both know and enjoy their insularity too much to trade sobriquets.

The Chechnyan's are caucasions indeed - but not exactly "white male Tea partiers" like the slavish PC media needed them to be: a domestic enemy to match their fascist wet dreams.

Maybe next time, suckers!

39. I actually have "libertarian" friends who think Christians are the source of our (US) troubles with Islam. I try to point out their ignorance, but "Ron Paul" crazies are Leftist (ie, doctrinaire) enough that they almost immune to basic counterfactuals.

40. I am speaking of small minorities, of order maybe 20,000 to 50.000 people which is commensurate with fundamentalists in other christian countries. I happened to be born in one such set up. Why would somebody think that all of Greece is fundamentalists from my statement evades me.

41. Hey - In Minnesota (USA), Norwegian Newspapers got firebombed during World War One because people thought they were German!

42. LOL! But I'll stand with Lubos against the angry mob (with pleasure)!

43. If they had been from Atlanta, Georgia instead some idiot would probably would want lay siege on Georgia in Russia. Fortunately most Americans are not that ignorant. A cynic might postulate that we likely know of the Czechs more due your fine beer than our fine education.

44. Wow, people actually tweeted about Czech Republic? I will say, watching all the local Boston news since the identity of the brothers, the newscasters only referred to Chechnya (thank goodness). I am astounded that people I know feel so compassionate about the little creep in custody now. If he apologizes for blowing up an 8 year old and two young women and assassinating a cop and maiming so many others, maybe THEN I'll think more deeply about his family's struggles, but not now. He went back to college and PARTIED 2 days after the bombings. He's an animal without morals it appears. Nineteen is old enough to vote and to be responsible for personal choices. I hope he gets the death penalty.

45. "Georgia in Russia"?
Trolling is a art.

46. I think that you would find some Christians, some Jews, some Muslims and every other that would answer your debate points with violence. Religion like alcohol can be easily abused.

47. I think that the tweets had to be retroactively deleted etc. When one searches for Czech-Boston-Marathon tweets now, there are hundreds of them but almost all of them make fun of the morons:

But I did the search earlier and the composition was entirely different.

48. Funny, I know quite a few fundamentalist Christians and even count some of them as my friends. A fundamentalist, whether Christian or Moslem, is simply one who believes the Bible/Koran is the word of God/Allah and is the literal, unquestionable truth. It has nothing to do with placing bombs.
Of course it is true that there are many more violent Muslims than violent Christians. No one is questioning that.

49. Well, it's truly disgusting that idiots would confuse the home of the Velvet Revolution of Ladies & Gentlemen (your country) with a much rougher, more violent place.

50. Czechia, or correctly said Czech Republic also have a secret weapon on auto-timer. They call it "knedliky" or dumplings. You eat them at 6 PM and they go off at midnight...

51. I seem to recall when the sh*t was hitting the fan in Albania, that our local Canadian commentators had to remind listeners that Tirana wasn't Toronto.

Mind you, many Canadians call Toronto... Tarana.

52. Dear Joseph, the name "Czechia" is exactly as correct as the "Czech Republic", according to official documents released by the ministry of foreign affairs immediately in 1993. Too bad that most English speakers haven't noticed that our country has a short apolitical name, too.

53. Lubos, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev like a lot of the whole geographic area you showed and more is not white. it has been a mixture of Caucasian and Turkic-Mongol races for a couple thousand years or more. his face does not look white either.

the comments you made about the americans and the Czech Republic show why you very often overestimate them.

54. A few years ago, I met a Russian doctor who didn't know what "Neanderthal man" referred to. Thinking that the name might be very different in Russian, I told him about Neanderthal man. He still had never heard of it.

55. I would rather laugh at that guy than some random common folks from Twitter.

56. I wouldn't be using Fox News as the source of anything that happens in the real world :)

That is truly scary :)

57. Lubos - If the American authorities ever get to be that ignorant, the military probably won't even be able to find the Czech Republic, but if you're still worried, just change the name of your country far enough in advance! :-)

58. Certainly the association is ridiculous and could only happen in the US,
for whom the rest of the world is a box called "other".

Baloney, Anna. We have a hefty supply of ignorant people, that's all, and I believe they're disproportionately in the younger generation. I've met foreigners who were hilariously ignorant about the United States.

At some time we
had a lot in the news about Chechen rebels as I am sure most of Europe.

So did we, so did we.

Bill

59. Lubos - I wouldn't generalize, either. I just thought it was kind of funny. I'm pretty confident that this guy did find it odd, though. "Throws me off" means something like "confuses me."

My own experience with black people is like yours: "common sense...honesty...feel closer." Of course, that doesn't generalize to the entire black population, but I'll say they're easier to get emotionally intimate with. Maybe it's simply that they have less to lose than whites, but I'm not sure, because there does seem to be something magical about them.

60. These are interesting comments on their race but I am mostly not getting it. There is of course some Eastern flavor in his face - surely brown eyes and the South-style hair etc.

However, your Turkic-Mongol twist doesn't seem to nullify my opinions. First of all, I think it's strange to clump Turkic and Mongol folks today because it's a 2300-year old history, and an administrative one. Second of one, I tend to think of Turks (and perhaps even of Mongols) as parts of the white race, too. They're suntanned - there's a lot of Sun over there - but it's hard for me to classify people like Erdogan ;-) as anything else than whites.

61. Of course it doesn't generalize in my mind, either. I am instinctively afraid of most of the average blacks and convinced that the instinct has a very rational basis.

When I was doing shoppings in C-Town, New Brunswick, New Jersey, it was often scary and I was grateful about every police car that was driving around - a partial relief. ;-)

62. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev looks less Mongol than an old girlfriend of mine, whom everyone considered to be white and nothing else. (She actually was part Mongol.)

63. Tony Zee sent me this hilarious Onion video on the U.S. aid sent to Andorra, believed to be in the blue strip of Africa:

64. Sure, I agree.

65. "liquidate offspring": If you're talking about Matthew 15, it's not a good example. Jesus is answering an accusation that he "breaks the tradition of the elders." In reply, he says that his accusers "break the command of God," and he uses the example of killing one's offspring, but he is quite arguably not endorsing the killing of one's offspring.

"fig tree": This is supposed to show Jesus's power to command Nature, not that the fig tree is actually at fault; the fig tree is said to be a metaphor for the Jews.

66. It's a reprise of last year's Who is Paul McCartney twittaster. Meanwhile, I am in receipt of a brief communication from my good friend Rufus T. Firefly, who informs me that he "isn't fooled" by Freedonia's latest attempt to "throw people off the scent" and is headed for "so-called Czechia" right now. Apparently a Ms. Teasdale has promised him the office of president.

67. the reason i cannot analyse is because they are many countries where the mixture started earlier or later by different groups of Caucasian and Asian ancestry. if you double the size of the map you have shown most of the area has people of mixed Caucasian and Asian groups. what i am saying is not only very well documented, it's a fact.

colour does not make the race, his facial structure is not of a person that is 100% european. southern or not a european person from the north or the centre or the south looks the same.

i have explained before about the Hungarians, Bulgarians and Finns and the same is true for a high percentage of the Slavic countries and also modern day Greeks. it's pretty simple to distinguish.

do you think you could distingusih him from a modern day Turk? of course not because mant Turks look the same because they are all mixed. 1000 years ago you could distinguish them but not today. you south style hair comment makes absolutely no sense if you meant south europeans.

even south europeans are not that south for example the portuguese and spanish that are proto , meso and later Celtic groups, the iberians were not indo-european mediterranean but they were Caucasian but they had some indo-european mediterranean groups smaller than the iberian and celtic.

a very big percentage of modern day greeks have mongol ancestry to a smaller or greater degree, which leaves the modern day italians as the only mediterranean indoeuropean southern europeans left.

past 1000 years and more the mongols have been all over the place in eastern europe and west asia.

although there are many ways to distinguish, the easiest by far is the upper jaw size.

68. So for me, a Christian fundamentalist is someone who insists that homosexuality is plain evil,

Yeah well they can get off the internet and stop using just about every modern device because most have computers(Alan Turing)
Don't get me wrong: I pick Christianity as "my religion" among religions.

I pick no religion, I remain agnostic because I think the matter is beyond our comprehension. But if God exists and I get to meet IT I am going to kick ITs hairy ass for the all grief down here.
Be careful about equating religious belief with intelligence. Religious belief is embraced for sometimes strange reasons and I suspect a lot of religious belief is simply cultural religion. That is, convenient. I don't care that much about what people believe about God etc. I care about their behavior, which includes encouraging others to be violent. No matter what their belief, if they are assholes I'll kick ém.

69. The church has been killing scientists and artists and any one who was willing to think at the time when muslims were building the foundations of algebra , optics etc . There are christian terrorists and muslim terrorists . Christians terrorists have been attacking the muslim ages

70. Lubos , I'm a muslim so I want to say that most of Imams preachings are not very important for me because my islamic faith is different from what you think about islam . I believe in Quran and the basic message of religion I believe that everything that doesn't conform to my inituition about god and the universe to be false and human invention , that's what most muslims I know believe in .

71. The original turkish tribes that came to start with as payed armies of the Byzantine empire were Turkish/monglolic. Mongolic is not about color, but about the mongolic fold of the eyes and the mongolic spot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_spot at the bottom of babies from mongolic races.

The Turks that brought down the Byzantine empire were of the order of 200.000 men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_the_Conqueror . These men intermarried ( harems i.e. more than one wife) with the local byzantine populations, beginning with armenians and galatians (in the Ankara region) , syrians greeks, slavs bulagarians etc. Armenians and GalateansI( celtic races brought by the roman conquerors) have a lot of blond genes. Most of the european looking Turks share the same genes with the above european races. Those 200.000 spread their genes to the millions who were under the Byzanitne empire before and their racial purity was diluted, genetics being what it is. Only Turks from deep Anatolia retain the dominant mongolic characteristics.

In addition it was very easy if you were a landowner to become a Turk. You just had to say "Allah is one and Mohammed his prophet" and you kept your property and retained your prominent status. Another dilution of the mongolic pool. Even as late as 1922 with the exchange of populations with Greece, rich greek landowners chose to convert and retain their property. Turks from Crete, which was occupied in the lated 1700s did not even speak turkish, and when the exchange happened they left and live on the anatolian coast, the old people still speaking greek.

Any mongolic characteristics appearing in the subjugated races are a result of rapes.In Crete in particular, if a woman was raped by a Turk she was killed, to keep the purity of the race, at least I have read of such a practice. In many parts of Greece girls were married off as young as eight years old so as not to be attractive to the overlords when they reached puberty ( not virgin).

This explains why Erdogan looks European, his genes are european as do most on the Aegian coast and in the Ankara region

72. Hi Bill, could you clear something up for me? I have met many Muslims who believe in crazy -- actually, evil -- conspiracy theories, especially about the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. They claim that no Jewish workers were in the Twin Towers on that day and that it was a plot to implicate Muslims. Is it something in the water that you drink?

73. Have a look at his aunt http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2013/04/19/sot-boston-marathon-suspect-aunt-full.ctv

74. I hear many of these stuff but It doesn't make sense once you think about it . It's not islam itself which make some people do these stuff. It's a twisted version of islam . people who are extremely ignorant and too dumb to figure out how things work can blow out things in the name of god .unfortunately , this untwisted version prevails throughout the islamic world

75. Bill, the problem with muslims is that they feel they have to act and live like clergymen or women. Christianity or judaism make a clear difference between religious authorities and believers. Why don't muslims sort themselves out and leave their "clergy" deal with their religion's fundamental questions etc ? Like this muslim delivery man in Paris who refuses to do his job because in the delivery there is alcohol. He had to be told by his imam that he is a delivery man, not a religious man... do your job asshole basically :-)

76. Erdogan really does not look european! really really!

77. as for purity of the race of the greeks in greece and cyprus this is not something that i want to get started. there's a reason i said that the italians are the only true mediterranean people left.

78. Yes, Ann, Czechia is one of the least violent places on earth and Chechnya, by any measure, is the most violent. During the two wars in Chechnya the Russians lost about 1600 heavy tanks and the city of Grozny was utterly destroyed. To surpass this you have to go all the way back to Stalingrad.
Many citizens of Grozny fled east to Dagestan, which, without doubt, was the source of the hatred and the bomb-making skills that led to last week’s horror in Boston, another extraordinarily civilized place and our seat of liberty. One wants to cry.

79. So, people who voted for Obama cannot be expected to be particularly well-informed. Obama has made it OK for stupid people to opine about things in public. Wow! You must have been born yesterday.
You’re right about the beer, of course.

80. Here is a review of DNA studies that include greeks. http://greek-dna-sub-saharan-myth.org/greek-dna.html .

Of course we are part of the soup of the region.

81. It's even worse. Some Americans also confuse Pilsen and Pisser.

82. Anna - It's a difficult comparison because the non-Mongol parts of the two would be different, but I'll say that the aunt is less Mongol-looking than the girlfriend.

83. George you are making a big mistake in your assumptions by not looking at religion. Yes, the greeks have mixed a lot with other christian races. Religion was dominant in the area after christianity settled, and Islam and Christians do not intermarry. Either the other ethnic becomes Islam , and that was the overlords religiton, or the moslem convert to christian, very dangerous in the Ottoman empire. Any original Turkish genes come from rapes not discovered.

If, as you predict the percentage of greek genes will be very small in a few years it will not be with marriages mixing with moslems, that is very low. They will probably overcome us by the birth rate , if they settle with families here. Greeks are not reproducing, the number is a bit over 1.

84. what i am seeing is the results and come to the conclusions. it would be really difficult to get historical facts about what i have said. i don't want to start getting in details or showing faces. i can give hundreds of examples.

do you think that the founder of Perimeter looks greek?
http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/news/mike-lazaridis-named-visionary-year

do you think Efstathiou looks greek?
http://www.iau.org/public_press/images/detail/iau1103b/

do you think that kaiadas from the golden dawn racist nationalist party looks greek?
http://www.xryshaygh.com/assets/images/news/sar3.JPG

i can give thousands of examples of well known greek people.

in case you have not noticed i am not a communist by the way so i am not saying this because of political ideology.

strong greece or weak greece, the citizens of it will not be greek. many here and in greece can be as patriotic and brainwashed as they want, they believe lies and live in a lie.

85. Well, we will not agree about what a greek is. For me it is partly genetic, but yous seem not to believe in genes; partly cultural background.

For Lazarides the wide face look here http://www.historylink101.net/greece1/rf-k-greek-statues-b1.htm .

For Efstathiou have a look at this statue http://www.sacred-destinations.com/greece/delphi-photos/statue-cc-frankfl.jpg The strong overhanging bones over the eyes are not to be confused with a mongolic fold.

And even the last one could be morphedhttp://www.greeklandscapes.com/greece/athens_museum_archaic.html from this.

86. Shannon, you risk getting your hands dirty if you try to help people polish their relatively ‘and cozy-keeping’ theistic turds. This friendly advice applies primarily to any sort of simple or relatively sophisticated naturally God-given and naturally selected superstitions. ;-)

P.S.
I meant “relatively sophisticated” in the sense of _only relatively_ sophisticated; This since in my estimation any theology will necessarily be less sophisticated than any reasonably well rationally argued for (even if not-as-completely-as-possible rationally argued for) and underpinned individual atheistic outlook (on life and the ultimate or the ‘multiversal or meta aspect’ of Reality).

Apropos which:
The highest form of such a (never completely philanthropically oriented) outlook on ourselves [one formed from a necessarily perversely and eclectically pieced together overview of how, and by what, we were brought about and are directly and indirectly caused to individually and collectively and species-typically be and behave the ways we are] would of course be very similar to my own. ;-^

My outlook is mainly made up of ‘evolutionary psychology type’ logic plus or minus some SEPTIC humor and a nice and clean-spirited counter-balancing antiSEPTIC humor.

[SEPTIC can conveniently also stand for scientifically established principles that inform conclusively.]

I like to purport that how I see things helps me to maintain an effectively philosophy terminating explanatory philosophical traction or FOOThold on What Is going on; One that Lumo could - if he eventually adopted it (or formulated one of his own) - complement with his near enough TOE-type hold on from every physical to every not too complex chemical pattern/interaction of energy and matter). %-}

Apologies for the hubris, and for that I enjoy provoking & teasing.

However, one good thing about the teasing is that it can sort both me and my "targets" out.

It sorts in that it is good for me to get a sobering (hopefully!) measure of (from feedback about) my method (and far from certain sufficient skill) of communicating what I feel I know.

As far as my targets go there might be a merciful effect of my teasing to the extent that the serious meaning contained in my meandering semantics [or English-language murdering, or enriching? style of ‘sentencing’ ;> (referring to a sometimes sardonic while acutely unskilled sentence constructions)] are better kEPT concealed for those people who unknowingly safeguard themselves by not being percEPTive enough to be recEPTive to the EPT logo of my logic, or who preserve their sanity by becoming annoyed and put off (possibly pissed off or offended on grounds of concluding that what they read is full of ‘SH+IT’ purely as a result a mad philosophizer’s onanistic outpourings).
Better stop now before I become banned! %-o

87. P.P.S.
I wrote "relatively warm and cozy-keeping" in respect of both currently in adversely pressing genuinely ‘SH-imploring type' circumstances or else by in people’s lives (most commonly early on) naturally (or socially naturally) 'put' CURSES.

CURSES is a MAD(Mutual Assured Destruction)-inspired 'conceptual compactification' that does not literally stand for but very well (IMO) represents: from rapidly to tardily incurred “traumatic memories”.

CURSES is thereby explained and put (with less reliance of "sem_antics") by utilizing a tacky (IMO) conventional term or terminology.

Someone may think the same about CURSES, or about any aspect of or about my entire philosophy terminating enlightenment promoting terminology, but with such dopes I beg to disagree. ;-)

88. I wonder if any of tweets came from Harvard grads.

89. %D
To be honest, I can only try to hide behind a very delicious bottle of wine! :-))

90. :-) Haha Eugene, the Swedish and their Systembolaget. I thought he took an overdose of vitamin C :-)

91. In your sauna ? ;-D

92. It's not on "Americans" who have problems with pairs of countries. I live in Australia; that's the one with the Snowy Mountains; quite unlike Austria which has snow in the mountains; and everywhere else. ;-)

When visiting France in the 1980's one of the locals in conversation, upon hearing from where I came, exclaimed that she had friends in Vienna... her friends seemed quick to correct ... but my French isn't terribly good . It was good for a giggle.

93. Yahoo news today has an article "5 pairs of countries that Americans confuse." They are: Australia,Austria; Sweden,Switzerland; Slovakia,Slovenia; Uruguay,Paraguay; Oakland,Auckland.

Let's ignore that last pair. Not only are Oakland and Auckland not countries, but the confusion is based on pronunciation.

Now, I'm no great shakes at geography - really! - but I find the other confusions baffling, except, to a small degree, Slovakia/Slovenia. I think, who could make these mistakes? I could give reasons why I think so, reasons which have little to do with knowing geography. For Australia/Austria and Sweden/Switzerland, one knows the character of the two countries, aside from any question of where they are. With Uruguay/Paraguay, it's not the character but rather the very fact that the names are similar; one notices the similarity.

Yet the article tries to excuse these confusions.

94. Gordon,

Terrorists have clearly won this round and likely emboldened to be "rock stars," then levitate to all the virgins!

It has become so easy for terrorists to upside-down the world's only superpower, as this youtube clip clearly shows. Even a cave man can do it.;~)

95. And what a complete and chilling lack of proportional response, Gordon. You don't shut down a city over one scared 19 year old!

What would these bumbling idiots do if one SEAL team went rogue? Freeze and shiver in their boots and surrender?

Boston is a proving ground for totalitarian creep. It's like a DHS
showcase. Warrantless pre-custodial searches in airports were championed
in Boston. CDC instigated swine flue madness where people were being
assigned tracking bracelets. Drone adoption and technology was started
there as well. Pick a Nazi-DHS edict, and it was most likely pioneered
in Boston. This doesn't diverge from that trend.

96. The US Media is seriously butt-hurt right now. They had every thing set up (once again) to proclaim the brothers as Right Wing Republican NRA card carrying TEA Party extremists.
Only to find out they they are Islamic Terrorists.